How To Drive Change Through Civic Empowerment, With Brandi Thompson
Brandi Thompson is the “accidental” co-founder and leader of Strong Towns ABQ, a Local Conversation in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She’s lived in eight states and has worked as a rattlesnake wrangler, a grant writer, and a teacher. She currently works as a flight nurse, providing care to patients who need to be air-lifted to the hospital.
Today, Brandi sits down with Tiffany to discuss the strategies that have helped Strong Towns ABQ successfully advocate for zoning reform and against highway expansions.
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Tiffany Owens Reed 0:00
Hi everybody. Welcome to another episode of the bottom up Revolution podcast. I'm your host. Tiffany Owens Reed. I'm a writer for strong towns, and it's my honor to host this show where I talk to ordinary people who are taking small but meaningful steps to improve the community where they live. I remember when I first got connected to strong towns, a friend introduced me to some of the staff members, and I was a little bit intimidated. I was worried that I hadn't read enough books. I was worried that I didn't really know how to explain bad urbanism. I was worried that I didn't really fully understand how to explain the growth Ponzi scheme that Chuck writes about. And so I was honestly a little bit stressed about the whole situation. But turns out that all of that anxiety was for no reason, because the more I've been involved with strong talents, the more I've come to realize that it's not really about what you know. I mean, it is like, yeah, there's some basic concepts you probably should understand, but you can always keep learning, right? But what matters more than what you know is your willingness to care about your place, your willingness to notice, to observe, and to eventually say, Hey, I think maybe we can fix this. So today's guest is doing that in her town, and similar to me, when I reached out to her about coming on the podcast, she was immediately like, I don't know if I'm qualified enough, but she's doing some really great work, working alongside some other neighbors to get a local conversation group going, and I'm excited for her to share her story. Originally born in Ohio, Brandi Thompson has lived in eight different states. She's worked as a rattlesnake wrangler, a waitress, a grant writer, a teacher, and she now works as a flight nurse, which I just think is one of the coolest jobs ever. She calls herself the accidental co founder of the strong towns Albuquerque local conversation group. And yeah, I'm excited to jump in and capture her insights and what she's learned and share with share this with you today in this episode. So Brandi, welcome to the bottom up Revolution podcast.
Brandi Thompson 1:56
Tiffany. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm excited.
Tiffany Owens Reed 1:58
I think this is a fun way to be spending our Fourth of July personally, at least.
Brandi Thompson 2:02
Absolutely. Happy birthday America, let's do a podcast.
Tiffany Owens Reed 2:06
Yeah, exactly this podcast for strong towns. What could anyone possibly want to do other than that? So tell us a little bit about your story. As I mentioned in your intro, you've lived lots of different places, and you've got lots of interesting jobs. Tell us a little bit about how you came to call Albuquerque home, and maybe you could share what you love about it.
Brandi Thompson 2:25
I had previously spent a few months in Albuquerque through my time being a vagabond, and it really just kind of like got me stuck. They call it the land of entrapment for a reason. So in 2020 actually, during the COVID shutdown, is when I moved here, which is a wild time to move to a new city. But the mild four seasons, the beautiful outdoors, the unique cultural history were all like wildly attractive to me. Also from living throughout the country, I found a New Mexico to be comparatively affordable, even though I'd still say that it's not like generally affordable for average people, as we know nationwide. But we, my husband and I both found great job opportunities here, and one of the most attractive things for us, especially during the pandemic, was that New Mexico is a place that deeply cares for its people and for each other and for our family. That was just hugely attractive. We wanted to be in a place where people came together, and this was it. And so it's been a pleasure to live here.
Tiffany Owens Reed 3:35
While we're on the story, while we're on the topic of a little bit of your background, can you tell us a little bit more about the other places you've lived? And I really have to ask about the snake wrangling job before we go any further, because I'm just so curious.
Brandi Thompson 3:47
I know that one always throws people for a loop. They're like, what did you do? Yeah, one of my first jobs ever when I was in college, like back decades ago in one of my previous lives, I got a degree in environmental science and conservation. And so one of my jobs that I had as part of that was doing an endangered species recovery program for rattlesnakes in Ohio. So we would go out and capture rattlesnakes and put little radios in them, and then follow them around to find their dens, and then protect their dens so that their babies would survive. So that was, like, a wild time, but it was so great. It's like, walked out in the prairie every morning and, like, looked for snakes, flipped over rocks, caught them. Yeah.
Tiffany Owens Reed 4:31
Wow.
Brandi Thompson 4:31
Yeah. So that was in Ohio. People are like, Rattlesnakes live in Ohio?
Tiffany Owens Reed 4:34
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was saying, Maybe this takes place in Florida, somewhere. You know, you've got your like, galoshes on and you're like, running around.
Brandi Thompson 4:46
No, but we just wore like, hiking boots and gaiters, and sometimes we drove around a four wheeler. It was fun. It was a fun job, for sure. So yeah, I've lived everywhere. I've lived, like in the Midwest is where I'm originally from. I lived in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania in Pittsburgh. I also have lived in Colorado, California, New Mexico. I think I'm missing one, but yeah, so like East Coast, West Coast -- oh, I lived in Nashville for a few years -- North, South, Midwest. And the Southwest just really got me and I really appreciate the constant sunshine. The weather in the Midwest required pharmaceutical support for happiness, and here where the sun shines all the time, it's great. I'm thriving.
Tiffany Owens Reed 5:36
That's amazing. I've also lived all over the country. I think my list is probably three times as long as yours, unfortunately. So we won't get into my list, but it's always really fun to think about when you experience a new place. Kind of, what are the places that really speak to you, and what places do you really connect with? I think that's just such a fun part of hearing people's stories. So tell us about your work now and like your vocational context. As I mentioned the intro, you work as a nurse, specifically a flight nurse. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Brandi Thompson 6:13
Yeah, so I started as a nurse in the emergency department, and that was really foundational for me. I worked in the emergency department for like, four years throughout the pandemic. I was a nurse, like, later in life. So I started being a nurse in 2019 so that is like learning by rapid fire when you're a baby nurse, and then a pandemic comes and you're running out of ventilators.
Brandi Thompson 6:39
Man, I can only imagine.
Brandi Thompson 6:44
Yeah, it was wild.
Tiffany Owens Reed 6:44
And you're like, moving into a new city. That's insane.
Brandi Thompson 6:44
Yeah. And so then I started working for the flight team about two and a half years ago. So New Mexico is a really fascinating place. The whole population of the state is like around 3 million people.
Tiffany Owens Reed 6:53
Yeah, I looked it up. It's actually two something. It's smaller than three.
Brandi Thompson 6:56
Yeah, it's not a lot of people that live here, but it's like the fifth largest state by land mass. So we are just, like, very spread out and we have a lot of, like, small rural hospitals that don't have a lot of specialties. So getting people from where they are to where they can get the care that they need is really important and difficult in New Mexico in particular. So we do a lot of transporting via air, because driving would be like four to six hours often.Especially when you're critically ill, like you're in the middle of having a heart attack, or you're in the middle of giving birth to a baby that's coming too soon. So I go to work at the airport. We have three planes and a helicopter, and we help transport people who are super sick to get them the care that they need. And then, with our helicopter, we also respond to like scene emergency. So someone flipped their big rig on the highway, so then we'll land on the highway and respond to that as well.
Tiffany Owens Reed 8:02
Sounds like a very important and also slightly epic job.
Brandi Thompson 8:06
It's very humbling. I feel so honored to get to do it. I guess you could say I'm a little bit of an adrenaline junkie, based on my history with like rattlesnakes and helicopters, but yeah, it's just like a great job. But I also get to wear a Top Gun costume, which is a fun bonus.
Tiffany Owens Reed 8:25
Well, at least you're putting your adrenaline junkiness to productive and helpful uses. You know, helping little snake babies and helping human babies hopefully too. But what was it like for you? I'm just curious about the overlap between moving to this new city, kind of transitioning to this new job, and then also working in the ER. Like, I feel like it put you in a really interesting position to be able to kind of see a different side of the community that most people don't get to see. Can you share a little bit about kind of how your job, whether in the ER or as a flight nurse, has kind of given you this perspective on the on the on the city and even the state where you live?
Brandi Thompson 9:06
Yeah, so working in the emergency department- So New Mexico, again, is like very rural and like a low resource state, so I work at the only level one trauma center in the whole state, which means that if you have any kind of traumatic injury anywhere in the state, you're going to come to the hospital that I worked in an emergency department. And the emergency department is one of the only places in America that I feel does not sort people. So whether you are the president of the United States or you are someone who's suffering with, like, the biggest burdens of society, if you get in a car wreck or you fall off a ladder, like you're coming to our emergency department, and so you get a real, true, like, feel of the pulse of the community that you work in when you work in the ER, because anybody who is a human goes to the same ER. And like I said, I started being working in the ER in 2019. The pandemic happened, and the experiences of people that I was caring for. The the burdens of the loneliness epidemic were just so apparent to me, so the struggling with mental illness, the violence against others, drug addiction, sedentary lifestyles leading to chronic health problems, loss of social support networks, people coming in because they have nowhere else to go for health problems or other problems that they're having. These are the things that we were seeing on a daily basis, no matter what income bracket you were in. Like, everyone was suffering from this. And so, like, I just felt that on such a deep level, seeing patient after patient after patient dealing with these things that are just really, like, related to isolation.
Tiffany Owens Reed 11:05
Which I can imagine, is somewhat like exaserbated by the way that you were explaining how people are so spread out in such a large state. I can imagine, that compounds it.
Brandi Thompson 11:16
Yeah, especially if you're in a in a small town that has few resources, and maybe it's like very rural, like agriculture town. There can be, like, great communities there. But I think in the city, in particular, when I'm living in the city and like existing and going around, I'm taking care of these people, and then I'm out in my daily life, and I'm seeing the same things, like, people are isolated, like, during trick or treat there was no kids that came to my door because kids aren't outside. Like, there's no kids riding their bikes. An excellent example of how I'm seeing this in just my real life is right across the street from my house are three single family homes all next to each other, all inhabited by a single senior citizen. They don't have family. Some of them have health problems, and they're just in their homes by themselves every day. And so there was one day where I invited them three over for coffee to my house, coffee and scones, because I just wanted to be a good neighbor and get to know them better. And they had all lived here for over 20 years, and they don't even know each other. And I it was just shocking to me, the lack of community engagement that we have and how that can, like, really pan out. Like, my one neighbor has mobility issues. She could easily fall in her house and nobody would know, and she wouldn't be able to get up. And, you know, I imagine a time like when I was growing up, I feel like we were always checking on each other and then I'm seeing this also in my work, people coming in who are found down after being down for four days or not getting their basic needs met. Soit's, like, very obvious to me in my lived space and in my workspace.
Tiffany Owens Reed 13:08
Yeah, wow. Thank you for sharing that. Let's talk a little bit about how this sort of translated into your observation of, like, the built environment too, because I'm sure you started to see some connections between the way we've been built, the way your city has been built and developed, and these issues of isolation. So can you share a little bit about how you found out about strong towns, or how you found out about urbanism? Because, as we've mentioned, you've had a very interesting background, but nothing in the urbanist world. So now we get to talk about that side of things. Can you just share that story, kind of how you came across the language around cities and the discussion around how they've been developed, and then specifically about strong towns?
Brandi Thompson 13:50
Yeah, so, funny enough, I became a patient. I had cancer in 2023, and was going through cancer treatment. So when you go through cancer treatment, you can't do a lot of this fun stuff that you normally do. So I had to quit all my extracurriculars, and I was spending a lot of time just in my house alone. And in 2023 when you're bored and lonely, what do you do? Well, you get on the internet. And so I spent an embarrassing amount of time just surfing the internet. And I happened upon that, like, really iconic image of that meme that's like, "kids don't play outside anymore" and then it's like "the outside that we built for them", and it's just like a giant stroad with all these, like fast food restaurants. And that struck me so much, because I live on a road just like that. A road that, like, on the other side is a Starbucks that's only drive through, and I'm scared to walk my dog the two blocks across that street because I'm afraid I'm gonna get killed. So it just really hit me, and then I'm sitting here suffering from loneliness, the same things that I am seeing every day in my profession and in my neighborhood, and then I'm experiencing it in this new personal way. And then I'm finding this urbanist, strong towns stuff. Because I went down a little rabbit hole and I was like, wow, this is resonating with me so deeply on how, like, look at what we built, look at these spaces physically and also like electronically and we are just not communicating with each other. We're not connecting with each other. And it doesn't have to be like this. And especially since I had lived in other places, like when I lived in Pittsburgh, for example, you know, the bump into was, like my favorite hobby that happened. You just go down the street, you walk to the coffee shop, you walk to work, you bumped into somebody you know. That doesn't happen here, which is wild because we have way better weather here. You would think that people would be outside, walking around so much more. But I just made that connection of, like, wow, people don't do stuff or outside or, like, in the community here nearly as much. And that is by design. And it doesn't have to be like that. And so all those things kind of came together and got me interested in strong towns. So I found strong towns. I watched some, like, educational little videos about it in my free time that I had from my treatment. And yeah, then it led me to, like, reach out, to be like, oh, there's not a chapter here. We should do something about that. And then blossomed into this crazy thing that we're doing now.
Tiffany Owens Reed 16:37
So I take it that you were successful in beating the cancer.
Brandi Thompson 16:40
Oh, yes, thank you. I feel great now.
Tiffany Owens Reed 16:42
Excellent! Great. Congratulations on that. But what you're saying about strong towns and your experience. To me, one of the things that's so interesting about strong towns is how a good amount of what they do that is teaching people some things that they didn't really understand. But I also feel like your experience reminds us that many times people have already seen it and they've experienced it and they felt it. They just don't have the language to call it what it actually is. I don't think it's rocket science that people are like, Something feels weird about this intersection and I'm going to avoid it. You know, like people make decisions in response to that design all the time. And I think strong towns can be so helpful at helping people understand the decisions that they've made, or, like, why they're uncomfortable in certain environments, or why they really love certain experiences, like the bump into. I love how you turn that into a noun, it's like the bump-into!
Brandi Thompson 17:33
Yeah!
Tiffany Owens Reed 17:34
Beacause it's true, it's like one of the best things that could ever happen to a human being in a city, I'm convinced. Just out and about, and then you run into someone you know, or someone recognizes you, or you know by name, or they know something about. Like, ugh, don't get me started. One of my favorite memories is when I lived in Asheville, and I would spend a lot of time in coffee shops and then vintage stores, and I was really just trying to be out in the town, and I'll never forget this one day someone goes flying by, they're turning on a street, and I'm walking down the street, and someone yells out the window, "Hi, Tiffany!" And I could have just teared up immediately, because I was like, someone in this big, massive world recognized me and then took the time to say hello, and they knew my name. It was so overwhelming, and it partly was because I had grown up moving so much. I'd never had that experience of, like, being in a town where everyone knew you and they could call you by name, and they would reckonize you, just the whole thing. It's still so emotional for me to even think about those kinds of moments. But yeah, I think we're all experiencing design constantly. We just don't always have the language to articulate what it is that we're actually experiencing. And I think that's what organizations like strong towns can be really helpful.
Brandi Thompson 18:44
Oh, I totally agree.
Tiffany Owens Reed 18:43
Yeah. So in particular, I haven't spent a ton of time in Albuquerque, but I have been there briefly, and I remember not being very impressed with like, the built side. So can you talk to us a little bit about that side? And I know this is an interesting question, because it's not like Albuquerque started in the 1950s. It's been around for a very, very, very long time. So you're living in, what, probably like the fourth or fifth generation of design? Not the third like most cities are. So for people who maybe have never been, can you just kind of paint a picture of your city from the built environment perspective and kind of how strong towns has helped you interpret it? Like, what have you started to notice as you've learned more about the design side of things?
Brandi Thompson 19:29
Yeah, and I would love, in a moment to talk about, like, the history of Albuquerque and like the different levels of of design. But currently, what you see is a city that really expanded in the 50s, 60s, 70s. So like the height of suburban sprawl, car centric design. We are a city full of strip malls, big six lane roads. The city is built mostly on a grid. And like, route 66 goes through the heart of our city. So that just kind of tells you the era that the city was built in. It's like very mid century modern. We have a little downtown that is mostly empty and like desperately needing revitalization. But there's also really rich like history and texture here. So while our recent history is car centric and strodes everywhere, strip malls, lots of abandoned stuff, I think also many cities are experiencing this. Globalization has changed our whole commercial market, and our city seems to be like way over built for commercial, so we have like crazy vacancy rates, and it can feel very sad driving down roads. We also have, as many cities do, like an unhoused problem, and so you are seeing people really suffering just in the open when you drive down the heart of our city, and it can be very painful to see. But that is not the history or the culture of the city. That's like, a really current phenomenon this city. Well, first. I hate that I have to say this, but people have been living in what is now Albuquerque for 1000s of years. So the history did not even start in the 1500s. People have been here since before BC or whatever. And actually, the people who lived here built civilizations that are still standing with us today and provide us like a deep example of what a resilient civilization looks like. So we have some UNESCO world heritage sites here, like Bandelier, Chaco Canyon, Taos Pueblo. These places have been inhabited for 1000s of years, and just show you how people have lived forever in in the design of their spaces. And then the Spanish conquistadors came here in the early 1500s and started some settlements. And so brought their that you like, 80 years before anyone knew what Plymouth Rock was. And they came here. They brought their Spanish design. If anyone's ever been to Santa Fe, which is like a very popular tourist location because it has very distinct, like architecture and design, that is influenced by the Spanish conquistadors. And this land became Mexico, and then this land became the US in, like, the 1850s but the people have been here since before all of those borders existed. So that rich mixed history and culture has broughtdifferent styles of civilization and like built environment. It didn't get crappy until the 1950s. So like our culture and the history and heritage here is super deep and and still very present. And you can look around our land and see it. I live in a little adobe-style pueblo house. This is how people have been living since before any Europeans knew that this existed. And so it's not hard to imagine, like making a city that is resilient and still true to the land and true to the history.
Tiffany Owens Reed 23:37
Yeah, one of the central practices or postures, I would say, at strong towns, is definitely looking back at history to find wisdom for how to move forward. And I think that's true for just about any city. I think one of the biggest tragedies of suburbia, of the suburban experiment, is the way it took a certain collection of patterns, and then just applied them with very little consideration for local context, all over the country, right? So just sort of like stripping so many of our cities of local character, and just like attunement to like the particularities and the unique aspects of each place. And I think probably someone would say, Oh, that's more efficient. But then look what you've done. You've kind of gutted the soul in the course of doing that.
Brandi Thompson 24:28
Yeah. News flash, vinyl signing is not natural to the southwest.
Tiffany Owens Reed 24:32
Yeah. There's so many things like that. And it is sad, you know, because I grew up doing road trips all over the country. And I remember even as a little girl just being bored to death by the way everything just all looked the same. And I guess there's an element of certainty and familiarity that's nice to have. Then there comes a certain point where you're like, you know the whole point of being a city is to be a place where local culture is demonstrated and preserved and passed down and cultivated? And so when you start to feel just like a nation of stroads and chain stores, it can be pretty depressing. Because cities do have something interesting to offer relative to who they are, like to their unique story. All right, so let's continue moving forward with your story. So you had this experience in your life, fighting cancer, you beat cancer. But then you're finding out about strong towns, looking at your built environment, and then you realize, like, hey, there's no chapter here. Can you tell us a little bit about how you moved into action at that point and started to work on organizing that conversation group and kind of what happened from there?
Brandi Thompson 25:44
Yeah, so I have reached out to the national group being like, Hey, there's no chapter here. Should we start one? How does that work? And I got connected with three other local people who had previously expressed interest as well. So that was great. The national group helped connect us, and we emailed each other, and I set a time and date at a local brewery for the four of us to meet. I didn't know who any of these people were, but we were going to meet up and talk about whether we should start a chapter. So it was like I thought I was being so cute and together. I had, like, a spiral note book that I, like, ripped a page out, and it was all tattered on one side, and I folded it in half and made a little table tent and wrote strong towns on it and put it on in the middle of a table. And I sat down like ready for these strangers to come, these three strangers to come meet me. And within the next 15 minutes, 73 people showed up to the brewery, which I was wildly unprepared for. There was a band playing at the brewery. They had to stop playing. They were like, so upset. But I was like, I don't understand. I only invited three people. Why are there 70 people here? And someone had put it on the internet and it went viral, unbeknownst to me. And so all these people showed up. Like, a city councilor showed up, multiple people from the city planning department, people who are in the advocacy group around transit and safe biking, people who had been involved in city government and organizing for years. And I'm here, a nurse. I don't know anything about this. I just learned about strong towns three weeks ago. And the city councilor came up to me and was like, I'm so glad you're doing this. I ran for city council because of strong towns. And I was like, Oh my gosh. So I mean, very humbling. I felt like an idiot. I'm just standing in front of all these people. I'm like, I guess, just put write your name and email on this piece of paper, and I'm going to figure out what to do, and I'm going to email you later about it. That was all I knew what to do. And then I asked, If anyone here wants to help me, I don't know what to do and I need help. And a few people raised their hand, which was amazing. And through those connections that were made that night, we got some people together and we started a formal group.
Tiffany Owens Reed 28:07
Okay, so this is my second thought. So earlier, I said that I feel like one of the things that's so interesting about strong towns is how they give people language to articulate what they've been already noticing and experiencing. But I also think it strong towns also provides sort of this, like, container for people who actually want to do something. Because I don't think people come across strong towns and they're like, Ah, I should do something. Actually, I think there are a lot of people who have that energy and that desire, but just no framework or like structure for putting it into action. And so hearing your story about all these people showing up, it just reminds me that I think our cities are full of people who care and who notice and who think about these things. They think about what they're seeing, and they want to do something. And it takes someone like you being like, Hey, let's all get beers. You know, of course, thinking you're only going to meet with three people. And then it just hits this nerve and all these people come out. I hear that, and I'm like, I think that's just so incredible that there are like 70 people, which is actually kind of remarkable for Albuquerque, I think as well, because, like you said, there's not a lot of people there. They're all very spread out. But to even see, like, there's this much energy and there's this much care and interest and willingness to do something. I don't know. I feel like sometimes people can live in suburban America and think that everyone is happy with the way things are, or maybe just we're all practicing radical acceptance, and we've just kind of moved on. But when I hear stories like that, it reminds me that, like, no, there's actually a lot of us who are very unhappy and very like discontent with the way things are, and actually want to do something about it.
Brandi Thompson 29:49
Oh, I totally agree with you. And Albuquerque is an amazing place because it is not apathetic. People here have opinions and they do stuff about it, which is one of the things that attracted me to this place. But I would agree with you. This energy existed. I didn't cultivate this energy or interest in in urbanism. It was there. All we did was give it a venue. So I would say that was like a big stroke of luck for me. I have had questions from people being like, How do we learn how to get a big chapter like yours? And I'm like, bro, I don't know. Like, the people showed up. I invited for beers and people showed up. They just were there. And I think maybe that is unique to Albuquerque. Our city is like 600,000 people. So it's not huge, but it's not a small city. But because there's so few people who live in this state, access to people in power, there's just fewer layers. So it does feel like here in this place, if you want to do something, there's less barriers to achieving it compared to whether, if you lived in, like, New York City. There's no other group doing this work, like we're not competing with anybody. We know our city councilors, we have been able to access people at the governor's office, people in Department of Transportation, like it just feels accessible here, in a way that in bigger states I've lived, it didn't feel as accessible. And I think that can be empowering actually, because you can say, I want to do something, and then you feel like you can actually do it.
Tiffany Owens Reed 31:38
Yeah. So what were you hearing as you are kind of talking to this initial group, but as you kind of start to grow the group from there, like, what were some of the concerns that were coming up, or some of the ideas? And then can you tell us a little bit about how the group and the chapter has evolved since then, and maybe what y'all are working on?
Brandi Thompson 31:56
Yeah, so the initial interest of the group started around like safe streets and housing. Housing because we're having a housing crisis here and affordability issues. There are very well organized neighborhood associations who have had a lot of power in the city for a long time and who have had a lot of sway in stopping some development. So I think there was like a tension there that's existed. So there was like an opportunity to work on those issues. So one of the first things we did was, there was a bill that came up to city council for a zoning change to help change some zoning to allow for duplexes in some small areas of the city that were previously zoned for single family homes. We advocated around that. We actually didn't win, like the bill didn't pass. But that was the first campaign that we organized around, and we learned so much from that. So that was, like, our first thing. Another stroke of luck that happened here in Albuquerque is there's this YouTuber who's kind of popular, called City nerd, and he lived in Albuquerque, and we ran into him at a brewery because that's what happens here.
Tiffany Owens Reed 33:15
That's awesome.
Brandi Thompson 33:16
He was like, Hey, I love strong towns, we like to advocate for the same stuff, I would love to host an event for you guys. So we got a lot of early energy from that as well. Again, I didn't do anything special for that. If you go out in the community and drink beers, you run into people. So that also helped us build momentum. So that was kind of how we got started, was, like, around housing and then some transit related stuff, like for improving our transit system and, like, safe biking, pedestrian infrastructure. Sorry, you had more to that question. I'm sorry.
Tiffany Owens Reed 33:54
Well, yeah, it's funny because I went to Santa Fe for my honeymoon, like, three years ago, and we took the train to Albuquerque because we needed to go to- What's the famous burrito place, the famous restaurant? Sadie's?
Brandi Thompson 34:13
Oh, yes. Sadie's, yeah.
Tiffany Owens Reed 34:14
Okay. I was like, I know it starts with an S, and I know there's an A in there somewhere. My husband spent some time in Albuquerque in high school. And so it was just like, part of the package that like, well, we're gonna have to get to this place and have burrito.
Brandi Thompson 34:26
Of course, iconic.
Tiffany Owens Reed 34:27
And my part of the deal was like, fine, but there has to be a train involved. So it worked out, you know, take the train Santa Fe. It was, obviously, I know, I get a kick out of riding trains, but then you get off the train in Albuquerque, and it was like a random, dark parking lot, and we had to walk. And I was like, it'll be fine. We'll hop on the bus and the bus would put us right outside the restaurant. Waited for that bus. It never came. So we walked along a very busy stroad and dark sidewalks. We made it. We had our burritos, and we had to walk all the way back. I think we ended up probably walking all the way back to the train station. And it was very eye opening, you know. So when you're talking about transit and walkability, I'm like, oh, from my one recent experience, I can definitely see how that's like, a struggle, you know? I mean, I don't know how long we waited for that bus. And I was like, I don't think this bus is coming. I think we should just walk. And this was in winter too.
Brandi Thompson 35:24
Yeah. There's some huge gaps in our city for meeting the needs of people, and so we see those as great opportunities.
Tiffany Owens Reed 35:33
Well, transit is so tricky because density is such a big part of the solution for good public transit. Money is a part of it, you know, having the right capital that you can invest well in building a good system, and then obviously the infrastructure you need to be in place. But I feel like a big part of the challenge is like, Well, how do you get the kind of ridership that makes it sustainable? So it just seems like very tricky challenge, especially if you're doing that in the context of an environment where people are already used to getting around by cars, but I'm sure it's not impossible. It's just very tricky. What do you see you all working on next as you continue to grow the group? I'm just curious, like, you know, it's a conversation group, so what are some of the conversations you're hearing or possibilities or ideas for things you all are hoping to work on?
Brandi Thompson 36:27
We've built a lot of momentum around a few big campaigns. So our first housing zoning campaign to change single family homes to duplexes failed, and then, like, six months later, we had another opportunity for a similar bill that was going to change parts of the city to up zone it along premium transit corridors. And we took all the lessons that we had learned from our first campaign, applied them, and we were successful, and we passed the bill. Well, we helped advocate to pass the bill. City councilors passed the bill. But through that, we disrupted the power structure in the city when it came to advocacy groups, which was good. We also now are dealing with intense community feedback from that. So we are learning a lot about coalition building, building trust, communication, how to deal with misinformation about us. So that's been a good thing to learn, but I think that we have seen already in the last six months, how by passing that bill, we have changed the conversation. Just by having someone be in community who is talking about positive change and the needs for it, we have changed the conversation. And so now we've seen momentum at the city to have more bills for more zoning changes to allow for more up zoning and more compact development. So there's some upcoming opportunities there around zoning and neighborhood design that we're really excited about. We also have the New Mexico Department of Transportation, along with the feds, had a big plan to expand I-25 which is a major highway. It goes through the heart of the city, and of course, it displaced historic disadvantaged communities in the past, and they want to make it bigger and more frontage roads and make it faster. And we did a whole campaign against the highway expansion. With a little bit of luck around DOGE and funding getting frozen, but also our advocacy and coalition building around that, that project is now not happening. It's on hold indefinitely.
Tiffany Owens Reed 38:52
Wow, yeah.
Brandi Thompson 38:54
So that was again, building momentum, changing the conversation. There was nobody in town talking about the highway. And then when you give it like a stage to talk about, you find that, yes, people don't want this. And by using some savvy media, we're really able to get the conversation going on that. We've got a lot of people who are excited about street designs, safe streets, school zone expansion. We are the city in the country that has the highest death per capita for pedestrians versus autos.
Tiffany Owens Reed 39:32
Oh my gosh.
Brandi Thompson 39:33
Also something that I saw in the ER all the time. I took care of those patients. And so our coalition building includes people who work in the emergency department, the trauma surgeons who have said that this is a public health crisis and a public health emergency. So we've gotten them involved to say that we have to do something about this. We're tired of watching people die in our emergency department from getting hit by cars because of poor street design.
Tiffany Owens Reed 40:01
I didn't put this in your list of questions because it's kind of hitting me now, but I'm just curious. Can you walk us through a little bit of like, some of the specifics? You can pick any one of those, maybe between the zoning or the highway, when you say the word advocacy, which is really weird word for me to say. Sorry, listeners, I stumble on this word all the time. Could you maybe share? I'm trying to get a conversation group started in Waco, and I think sometimes we just get a little bit confused about, like, there is no roadmap. Like we see this problem and we really want to fix it, but we're just a little stuck because we're not exactly sure. And it's not like someone is handing us, like the next seven steps to take, or the 15 people you need to talk to. Every city is so different, right? Like, the political infrastructure is different, the history is different, the vibe is different, you know? So you have to be really sensitive to, like, we might notice a problem, and we might know the strong towns answer to that problem, but there's not going to be a one size fits all magical map for, like, knowing exactly what to do. So I'm just curious, how did you all figure that out? Maybe you can just walk us through some of the specific action steps you all took to kind of build out that roadmap and go from, We've noticed this, to actually being effective at having some impact towards a more positive direction. Could you share some of the steps you took to bridge that gap?
Brandi Thompson 41:27
Yeah, and I totally agree with you, like, there is no roadmap, and so we're just winging it. And like I said, our first time, we didn't do it right. It's just like a lot of experimentation. But I do think there's a couple of things that we've learned that are really important. So I will say that when these bills have come up, they have not been bills that, like people from our local conversation have brought to city council. These are like City Council and the planning department have brought these and then let us know that these bills are going to be coming up. And so that is step one. I think some people think that they have to create that bill themselves. And I'm like, I'm not a policy writer. So people in our planning department and our city councilors have said, We want to see this change. We need more housing. We need more affordable whatever. So I think step one is really understanding what the bill is and educating people and breaking it down from policy speak to layman's terms, especially using pictures. So for example, the first bill that we advocated for that we were unsuccessful with, but it was duplexes. We made a map of every lot in the city that would be eligible for the change in zoning from single family home to duplex. And then we made a table of like, This city councilor district has zero lots that would be eligible, zero lots. This city councilor district has 300 lots that would be available. This is what this means. This does not mean that it will, like, automatically become a duplex. It just means that if one day someone wants to subdivide this, or, like, put a duplex into it, they can. And we did that, like, visually, and having the numbers and the maps. I think when you hear a summary of a policy at city council, there is like jargon, it doesn't make any sense. As you're saying, strong towns takes these complex ideas and makes them accessible to the gen pop like myself. So we are acting as the conduit for that. We're taking these technical terms and putting them into third grade language and using picture books, again, like I used to be a teacher, so this is like, how I taught my kids. So that is a big step, just helping the public understand. Because a lot of times there is a lot of like discourse around these bills that creates misinformation and fear, and it's not based in fact. And so we're trying really hard to like be fact based. And what does this actually mean? And let's use pictures to show examples of like, This is what a duplex looks like. It already exists in your neighborhood. It's okay if there's another one of them. These are the kind of people who live in duplexes. It's okay if they're in your neighborhood. Like, these are the benefits. So, explanation on an accessible level is a huge part of the advocacy that we found. Then we've used our media outlets, Instagram, some people do Reddit. I haven't been on Reddit in like 10 years, but Reddit is a thing still, that people do. So we're using like Instagram, Facebook, our website, Reddit sometimes, and putting this information out there, trying to answer questions, trying to debunk misinformation when we can. And then a big, powerful thing that we did when we did our zoning change advocacy is we created, almost like a petition. We wrote a little letter and said, I support this bill, and we had people provide comments, so they just had to vote -- it was like a Google form -- yes or no, I support this bill, and then please provide a comment of why. And we took that letter with over 100 people's comments and presented it at the city council meeting. And we had sent to them ahead of time, but then we presented a hard copy to everyone at the city council meeting, and being like, Your people want this, and these are why, and like, these are important comments for you to consider. And that was quite powerful.
Tiffany Owens Reed 45:46
That sounds so powerful.
Brandi Thompson 45:48
And that wasn't a heavy lift. We made a Google form and put it on our Instagram page, and people click yes or no. Like, that wasn't a lot of work on our part. It's something that anybody could do.
Tiffany Owens Reed 45:59
Yeah. Can you share a little bit about anything else that you all did, especially on the highway side of things? Because I think a lot of people get super intimidated at the thought of doing anything that involves the state DOT and the feds. What was maybe one or two things y'all did over there that you think were effective?
Brandi Thompson 46:16
It was, again, the communication and the visuals, like the visuals nowadays are just the way to get stuff done. So the DOT had this proposal. They had all these different plans, you know, like A through L, different designs. And then they had a public meeting where you could come and make comment. And we rallied our group to go and make comments. We provided like, These are some reasons why we think this is bad. Please also provide yours. But it's always good to give some people some samples, or like, little starter comments to help inspire them. And we went and overwhelmed the engineers with all of our comments about how terrible it was with lived experiences. I made a comment as an emergency responder, like, you make the highway quicker, more people die. End of story. You're saying this is for safety. It's not for safety. Like, that's not safer. And having like people from the hospital come. Again, also, in a state that doesn't have a huge population, our city councilor got us in contact directly with the Department of Transportation. So after that public comment session, when they were very overwhelmed by all of the comments against the project, we then proposed a meeting with them. And some of our team members went and made a proposal to them. Not only, We don't want this highway, but, We want you to spend the money to fix the highway, and we want you to make the highway safer and better by improving pedestrian crosswalks on the frontage roads and signage and please fix the crumbling bridge, but don't make it bigger, don't make it faster, don't use eminent domain and take over land. So we presented an alternative to them, and so we were in the room with the NMDOT, presented to them, and then the next week they said the project is canceled. And they blamed it on funding, and probably it was funding, but also, I think, maybe we had some sort of impact. Who knows. But using data. We have some amazing data nerds in our team who love to dig deep. Using numbers and facts, while unpopular these days, still can be effective at times.
Tiffany Owens Reed 48:43
Yeah, yeah. Well, the other thing I'm hearing too, is that there's almost like a ecosystem of advocacy where there's like, you know, different kinds of people who take on different kinds of jobs, and you need all of them, right? Like, you need the people who can be more on the front lines, like the people who can do the research or get the data or read the bill or meet with the council member. But then there's probably a huge group of people who probably can't make it to every meeting, but they can fill out a survey.
Brandi Thompson 49:11
Absolutely.
Tiffany Owens Reed 49:12
They probably can't meet up with anyone for coffee, but they could, like, give a comment if you tell them how to get started. And so it almost seems like y'all have this sort of like role of facilitating civic participation for people who otherwise might not ever do it, because they can't be on the front lines in this way, right?
Brandi Thompson 49:31
Absolutely, absolutely. That's like one of my, I would say, founding principles of how I operate in life in general. If you want someone to do something for you, you have to make the smoothest path possible for them to get there. If you make any barrier, you will stop people from getting there. And if the goal is, I need you to get from point A to point B, I'm going to make it so easy for you to get point A to point B, it's not even work. So providing sample comments, being like, copy and paste this comment, click on this link, press send. Making it the fewest amount of steps to be able to share your voice and show that you care. Because people are busy, they've got families, we're not retirees. We've got full time jobs, like, we've got stuff going on. We can't be going to all these meetings all the time. But the ones who can go, and then the ones who can't can still have a strong voice and participate. And you're right, we've created structures to make that as easy as possible for them.
Tiffany Owens Reed 50:35
Yeah, and I think there's, there's no shame in that. There's no shame in being like, Hey, all I have time for is to, like, send in a quick comment. I got to get dinner going, right?
Brandi Thompson 50:44
Absolutely.
Tiffany Owens Reed 50:44
I think sometimes there can be this idea of, like, civic participation has to be, like, your part part part time job. Like you have to attain this level of, like, commitment or saturation, is the word that I keep thinking of. And it's like, actually, I bet so much meaningful change could happen from like, 100 people who can give five minutes rather than five people who can give, like, 100 hours or whatever. And if you can just activate all the ordinary people who have pasta cooking, but can also quickly share something to their Instagram story or, like, type in a quick text to someone about a bill. If you're like, hey, text your comment to this number. Like, that's something I can do while I'm making pasta, and that's just as valid as the person who can do a two hour meeting with a council member over coffee, you know?
Brandi Thompson 50:44
Absolutely, absolutely. And one of the things that I'm really proud of that our team has done, this was not my idea- In our city, there's a lot of groups that are very good at being negative, and so it's really important for us to be the positive voice for change and positive change and so one of the things we've done a couple times is a thank you letter writing campaign to the mayor or city councilors for things that they've done that we feel are positive changes. And so one example is they put in this very small, like, pilot project of a protected bike lane on a really dangerous road. And so we sent like, 40 thank you letters to the mayor for getting that done. And then I ran into the mayor at a meeting, and he said that is so impactful for him to know that the work that they're doing is making an impact, and that people are grateful for that. Because almost always what he hears is just people being angry that he put in a bike lane and so for us to like play that role has been very critical, again, in changing the conversation and the tone of discourse here. I would say that's one of the things I'm most proud of.
Tiffany Owens Reed 51:18
Yeah. Brandi, I feel like there's so much more we could talk about, but we're closing in on the hour, so I'm gonna go ahead and send you my final question. This is a chance to brag a little bit on your town. I ask this of everyone who comes on. If someone was coming to your city for a couple hours or for a day trip, what are two or three local places you like for them to check out, to get a slice of local life? And I'm assuming there's going to be a brewery on here. I'm expecting a brewery and a burrito place. That's my categories, I'm ready for you to fill them in.
Brandi Thompson 53:20
Well, I can make your dreams come true. There's so many amazing thngs. It was hard for me to just choose a couple. I will say first and foremost, like the Old Town Plaza, which was like the heart of the original Albuquerque, like Spanish colonial settlement. It still has the same church and plaza that were there, like in the 1700s, and it's just gorgeous and a pure example of, like, the Spanish colonial style and one of the many styles of traditional quote, unquote development that exist here. And there's great little shops, wineries, breweries and like food in there. Another one of my favorite places is this place called Bike and Coffee. And I actually got married there, but I made people ride bikes 10 miles with me from my house to this location, which is an old farm.
Tiffany Owens Reed 54:10
We can be friends in real life, right? I think this is the point in the show where we're like, Okay, this show has just become Tiffany's interview for new friends.
Brandi Thompson 54:17
Yes. But it's so cute, it's off the bike path along the Rio Grande in this area called the Bosque, which means forest in Spanish, but there's bike paths there. And then there's this adorable old farm that has a brunch place, so you can get an amazing burrito and coffee there. And then my favorite local neighborhood brewery where we had our infamous first meeting where the band had to stop playing, is called High and Dry because we have a high desert and dry air and it's hot air balloon themed and and they make great beer, and it's a great neighborhood place. They have trivia on Wednesdays. I've made random new friends from there by playing trivia with strangers, and it's just like a great neighborhood location. So any of those places I would highly recommend, if you ever get to travel to Albuquerque.
Tiffany Owens Reed 55:13
Well, Brandi, if you ever open a coffee shop or anything, I think we already have your name, The Bump-Into, so you can just write that down.
Brandi Thompson 55:19
Yes, The Bump-Into! Do I owe you copyright?
Tiffany Owens Reed 55:21
We can split it, we can do 50/50. Can you split copyright? Who knows, but you can split a burrito. Maybe we'll get to do that one day in real life. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story and your insights with us. I really appreciate it. If you're listening to this, I hope you found this conversation inspiring and a good reminder that you probably have something to offer your town, even if you feel like you're not technically qualified. I also want to remind you that we have a forum where you can let us know about someone in your city who you think would make a great guest. We that's how we found out about Brandi. So if you know someone, please nominate them using the suggested guest form in the show notes. And I will put the links to yeah, all relevant links from this conversation will also be in the show notes, and I will be back soon with another conversation. Brandi, thanks again for coming on.
Brandi Thompson 56:08
Thank you for the invite. What a pleasure.
Tiffany Owens Reed 56:10
Yeah, this was fun. Yeah, I'll be back soon. In the meantime, keep doing what you can to build a strong town.
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Tiffany Owens Reed is the host of The Bottom-Up Revolution podcast. A graduate of The King's College and former journalist, she is a New Yorker at heart, currently living in Texas. In addition to writing for Strong Towns and freelancing as a project manager, she reads, writes, and curates content for Cities Decoded, an educational platform designed to help ordinary people understand cities. Explore free resources here and follow her on Instagram @citiesdecoded.