How To Build a Thriving Advocacy Group, With Alyssa Lee and Kay Crumb
Alyssa Lee and Kay Crumb are leaders of Strong SacTown, one of the largest and most successful groups in the Strong Towns Local Conversations program. Based in Sacramento, California, the group has 140 engaged members, balances multiple ongoing initiatives, and successfully collaborates with city staff.
In this Bottom-Up Short, Alyssa and Kay share their advice for building and sustaining a successful Local Conversation.
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Norm Van Eeden Petersman 0:00
Hello and welcome to this Bottom-up Short. I'm so glad that you could join us today. My name is Norm, and I'm the director of Movement Building for Strong Towns. I've met 1000s of strong towns members, and every time I think, I've got to tell you about this person. That's why we created Bottom-Up Shorts: a quick, powerful stories of regular people making a difference in their communities. And today, I'm joined by Kay Crumb and Alyssa Lee of Strong SacTown in Sacramento, California, leaders of the Local Conversation group there. They are agitators and persistent advocates for things that are helping the community to really grapple with what it takes to produce lasting, long term change. And so welcome Kay, welcome Alyssa, and can you talk about what it is that you are doing to build up a Local Conversation group, and in doing so, building up the capacity for new types of conversations to occur in the community?
Kay Crumb 0:56
So, there's been a lot of different things that we've done, but I think that the first step is that we've been very consistent in our meetings. We've had a consistent place, a consistent time. And it's not finding the perfect day and the perfect place. It's just picking something and making sure that you show up, that meetings are predictable. People always know that they're going to be able to learn something when they get to a meeting, or that they're going to be working in group work, that they're going to have an opportunity to listen to people and also be listened to. And we also make a really big effort to keep our meetings to exactly one hour, so that it's it's a manageable amount of time that somebody can attend. And it doesn't really spill over. If people want to stay and talk afterwards they can, but the official meeting end is one hour and that's it.
Alyssa Lee 1:46
Yeah, Kay's our really stellar timekeeper on this and has set that tone and culture from the very first meeting in early 2023, and we've had the same day and time since then. We have had to change location once because we grew so much that we outgrew our our cafe space, which was just us sitting outside in the patio of a cafe. But like Kay said, people always can show up as a first time member and remembering the mindset of like attending a meeting of a group you have never been to -- maybe you're completely new to activism, you've never joined a group before, and you don't know anyone else there -- and just thinking about what that experience is like. I think our meetings have really optimized for those folks because we recognize that there's a few elements that a newcomer needs. They need to feel welcomed and like they're in the right place, that it's totally great for them to be there. So we always have someone welcoming and greeting people when they first come in through the door. They also need to feel like their presence is noted, not in a way that is overwhelming but just that we see them and we're glad that they're there. And I think they also need the ability to become a little bit anonymous and to feel like they learn and to listen, so that they're not just listening to a bunch of other members and talking about and using a lot of terms that they might not know or to be like thrown into the middle of event planning for something they don't have a lot of context for. So I think having a speaker, having the presentations that are roughly the first half of the meeting, puts everyone in the same footing where they can just be a participant and not worry about, oh, I'm not participating or contributing at the level that all these other people are. Maybe I'm not the right person to be here. I don't know as much as these people. I'm not as involved as them. I think having that speaker really makes it so that everyone gets something out of the meeting, regardless of how they're coming in.
Speaker 1 4:05
And these aren't like world renowned speakers. These are city staff. These are people that I've reached out to, and we ask them, would you be interested in joining us at this meeting? And it is their job to show up and talk about different plans. So they're always excited to get that invite.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 4:23
And it feels like, to imagine the metaphor of like a hurdler that is trying to do this for the first time, if you look just down the from the starting line and you just see all of these sets of hurdles ahead of you, it can feel daunting. And I think a lot of folks feel that when they want to start up a Local Conversation, but they look at a group like Strong SacTown, they say, you're so far ahead, you've cleared all the barriers. What guidance would do you have for folks that just want to clear that first hurdle and maybe help other people join them in carrying on?
Speaker 1 4:52
The first step is that pick that time, pick that place, be consistent, honor people's time. I think that's first and foremost. And then after that, just make sure that- If you don't have the speakers, that's fine. You can have somebody speak about their experience. You can look at, how can we improve this street? What would you like to see on the street? Let's read an article together and then we'll talk about it. There's a lot of things that came up in the Strong Towns Academy leadership training for Local Conversations that I think really lend themselves to that first couple of hurdles. They're things that you can do as a group that's a really low barrier for entry. And it's just showing up and getting to know those people, saying hi to them.
Alyssa Lee 5:38
Yeah, just to bring it all the way back to the beginning, before we ever started the monthly meeting. The way Kay and her other co-founders began was the commitment to decide, we want to start a Local Conversation, and then pitching it at a few key places. You know, people should probably pitch it everywhere they go. But there was a couple of local meetings where, respectfully and in the right space, Kay brought up that there was this effort to start a Strong Towns Local Conversation in Sacramento and to reach out if you're interested. And then Kay followed up with all those people who reached out. And I remember having my, I think it was a 20 minute phone call with Kay, and it was just a really nice time to meet this person I've never met before. She asked me, just generally like, what's my background? What's what's my interest in Sacramento? Why am I interested in Strong Towns? Just very open ended, really listening, just asking to get to know me better. And that did really make me feel excited because, one, it made me feel like this was a real thing that was going to happen. Like I felt like, oh, this isn't just going to disappear and peter off. And it also just made me feel like, I like this person. I feel like this person genuinely wants to bring people together, get to know us. So when I did get that email, when you chose the day and the time and the location, I was like, oh yes, I am so ready for this. So I think having that personal touch, reaching out one-on-one ahead of time, was really what made me feel ready to show up. And about half of us on our leadership team were there at that very first meeting and have showed up non-stop since.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 7:32
And I'll say for those that are listening, if you go to Strong SacTown -- you can find them on social media, you can check out their website. And one of the things that I do want to highlight is that they are one of our our Stage 4, our top-tier groups as a Local Conversation, simply because they have gone through the various practices necessary to learn to gather together, then learning to communicate really effectively. They've already been doing so many things to advocate within the community, and they really do now resemble the the maturity of a Local Conversation group as it as it reaches this stage. One of the things I'd love to hear from both of you is what sort of experiences led you to the place that you're at now?
Speaker 1 8:12
So I have some background in teaching and I have background as a manager, and I think that those skills really translated very well into starting the Local Conversation. Asking people questions, helping people learn things, and then letting people take on responsibility and move on with their project. If they bring up a project, it wasn't going to be something that would come back onto the leadership team. It's something that we could help support them with and provide some basic materials, but it was really, ultimately, that person's project. But I think a big part of it is just making sure that you're talking to people and you're listening to people, and that you're doing that with an open heart, and you're really hearing the struggles that people are going through. That humbly observing is, I think, a really important piece of the Strong Towns method, and I think it's why we've been so successful. It's trying to figure out what people want to make this group and then acting on that within certain confines, like making sure that we're respecting people, that it remains apolitical, and that we're really focused on a goal, and that goal is just to make Sacramento better.
Alyssa Lee 9:25
I have a background in campaign organizing, particularly around environmental and climate issues, and that actually wasn't how I got into transportation work. I didn't have an active transportation background or city planning background. In fact, none of us on leadership do. But I think being trained as an organizer really taught me what it takes to move people and that it really comes down to relationships. It really comes down to, like Kay said, listening and really seeing that people's lived experience has to be their starting point for caring and being motivated to be part of change. Nothing happens without people. No campaign can be won without people. And people can't be motivated to put in the emotional and time effort of a campaign if they don't feel valued, if they don't feel like there's an impact to what they're doing, and if you're not giving them opportunities to learn along the way. So that background really helped guide what became some of our retention and recruitment and engagement practices. And I think, just in terms of why we care about this, we probably come from similar motivations, but really it just came down to, what impacts me more than how I move around every day, when I go out my front door? And it's more than just the bike lanes, and it's more than just the shade. It's more than just, what does it look like when I get there? It's so much about, who do I get to pass on my way there? What kinds of opportunities are there to make connections? And I think that's been a shared story that we've heard from a lot of people about why they joined Strong SacTown, that desire for a community and that desire for making our city better.
Speaker 1 11:48
And you can just ask people, what is it that made you show up today? Because they left their house, they came to an in-person meeting, they sat there for an hour. And so you can talk to them afterwards and ask them, why are you here? What's the thing that inspired you to do all of that? Because that takes effort.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 12:05
Yeah, I think that's also leaning into the real assets that each individual has as someone observing their place. And then asking those questions, like, if another place is doing something different, is there something we should learn about it, or is there something we should avoid in what they're doing? And I think there's actually something very comparable in the way that we also are building out these networks of Local Conversation groups, where a group like Strong SacTown, you know, Kay and Alisa and Isaac and others in the group are so valuable, not just because you guys are doing an amazing job in SacTown but also we're harvesting, or sort of harnessing, some of that energy and attention to detail and learned lessons, to be able to share that with other leaders in other places as well. And so I know we keep coming back to you each time and asking, can you teach us more? But I think there's actually a lesson even for our cities and our towns to be routinely asking, with the assets that we already have, what more can we be doing? And to share that with other places, to be very giving of those good ideas and passing that along. And so even just in this brief short we already have captured some really great ideas. But I would love to also hear from you, what is it that gives you hope in your community?
Speaker 1 13:17
For me, I think it's just seeing the way that the community has embraced the group, how quickly it's grown. We have about 140 people who are considered engaged in our group, which is a huge amount of people. And also seeing the happiness from the city staff, where they've been, you know, thwarted over and over, and getting certain things done that would make our streets slower or make it a little bit safer for pedestrians and cyclists, and seeing that they finally have a group that's willing to help out with this and genuinely cares about making Sacramento a better place. Just seeing that change in their lives has been really impactful to me.
Alyssa Lee 13:59
Yeah, I think it gives me a lot of hope that people have really responded to the the tone that we've set of being really positive. There's really high stakes, I think, to us not making the changes that we're hoping for, right? People, just this last month, have died on Sacramento city streets. We are cutting services that many community members rely on because of lack of money, and there is a crisis of many, many of our residents and fellow neighbors living and dying on streets because they don't have a house to live in. So the stakes are really high, and we aren't dishonest about the pain and the frustration that brings people to joining this group. But I think our meetings have felt really good and that people come back because we don't let our meetings become a place where everyone just complains and then leaves. We know what that feels like, and it doesn't really bring people back, and it doesn't feel good to do that day in and day out. It doesn't build pride in our city, and it doesn't make people want to do more and take that extra leadership step to decide, hey, I'm going to host a neighborhood walk. I'm going to do a trash cleanup. So I think the the hope is comes from seeing that people really do respond to our approach of really loving our city, talking about what we love about Sacramento, celebrating the progress that's made every single time there's progress, celebrating it publicly, with the staff, with council, with electeds. And recognizing that everything is a relationship. So even when we are calling on them to do better, asking them to, hey, listen to us, listen to these experiences, and put your money where your mouth is. But really recognizing that we all have a deep love for this place that we live in and we really want it to be better. So it does give me a lot of hope that it's working. It felt like, out of necessity, we have to be positive and have that positive outlet. But it does work.
Kay Crumb 16:25
It's working, yeah.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 16:26
Oh, that's fantastic. And what stands out to me is that you are doing so many doable things. As in, the barrier to entry is actually not so high and yet, simply by routinely doing those things and doing them in good faith and with a deep sense of interest in what other people are experiencing and being able to learn from that, just really sets a standard that I think a lot of our other group leaders, as well as individuals, can aspire to. If you're listening to this and you say, I don't yet have a Local Conversation, you can go through the process that we've established to help get groups started, and even then, it could just be look like tomorrow, asking a few extra questions. If you're at a bakery or a coffee shop, just ask the folks around you, engage in those types of things, and over time, see what comes from it. Both Kay and Alyssa, thank you so much for being on this Bottom-Up Short, I wish and I look forward to making this a one hour episode in the future, because there's so much packed into just what you've shared there. Thank you so much. And to everybody that's listening, go out and take care of your places.
ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES
Strong SacTown (site)
Alyssa Lee discussed this topic in more depth at the 2025 Strong Towns National Gathering. You can check out her presentation slides here.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
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