Upzoned
Two towns, two states, and two historic bridges that nobody wants to pay for. Brattleboro, Vermont, wants to reactivate two historic bridges with a pedestrian greenway. Hinsdale, New Hampshire, worries about increased crime and being saddled with the majority of maintenance costs while getting fewer returns. Abby and Norm discuss this dilemma, comparing it to similar bridge projects and identifying possible next steps for activating this underutilized infrastructure.
Transcript (Lightly edited for readability)
This is Abby, and you are listening to Upzoned.
Hey, everyone, thanks for listening to another episode of Upzoned, the show where we take a big story from the news each week that touches the Strong Towns conversation, and we upzone it. We talk about it in depth. I'm Abby Newsham, a planner in Kansas City, and today I'm joined by my friend Norm Van Eeden Petersman, who is the director of membership at Strong Towns. Welcome Norm. Thank you for joining me.
Hey, Abby, it's good to be back.
Yeah, great to hear from you, and apologies that it's 8 AM where you're at. My time is a little bit ahead of yours.
I'm doing my best to get some coffee into my system, but yeah, excited to talk bridges and all of this good stuff.
Yes, we love bridges. So you sent me this article, and I'll provide a little overview of it. So the article that we are discussing today was published in The Boston Globe entitled, "Can Two Towns Preserve the Bridges That Connect Them?" It explores the uncertain future of two historic steel truss bridges linking Brattleboro, Vermont and Hinsdale, New Hampshire. These were once vital road crossings, but the bridges were decommissioned after a new modern bridge was opened nearby in 2023. For years, the towns had envisioned reusing the old spans as a pedestrian and bicycle greenway, which would transform the river island into a public park. The plan included outdoor dining, an amphitheater, kayak launch, fishing pier. It would be a small-scale version of the High Line for the Connecticut River Valley that could preserve the historic infrastructure and also spark local economic activity.
However, that vision is now in jeopardy. So the state of New Hampshire has allocated $9 million for rehabilitation of the bridge. The state, however, has delayed the work by two years and has refused to commit funds for ongoing maintenance or policing. In the meantime, because the bridges fall mostly on the New Hampshire side due to a quirk in the state boundary—maybe we can talk about that—Hinsdale fears that they're going to be left with the long-term costs that they never expected to bear. The town argues that Brattleboro would reap most of the immediate economic benefit since its downtown sits right at the bridge landing, while Hinsdale's business district is miles away.
Public safety is a looming concern in this situation. Brattleboro has also struggled with homelessness, drug use and related crime, and Hinsdale residents worry that these issues will spill across the river if the bridges reopen. Even now with barriers in place, people are illegally crossing and prompting police patrols. There was a very unfortunate murder that occurred involving a social worker. So this has hardened the opposition in Hinsdale, where officials insist that they don't want to burden taxpayers or invite additional problems. Advocates, including local volunteers and nonprofits, have been suggesting alternatives such as creating a bi-state bridge authority, bringing in private management, or even shifting the state border to transfer responsibility. The tensions are still remaining despite all those alternatives. Brattleboro leaders acknowledge that while there's difficulties, abandoning the old bridge would be shortsighted and destroy a chance at creating a long-lasting regional amenity.
So Norm, this is a great article. I am a huge fan of these historic bridges that we have all over the country. I'd love to see them reutilized in creative ways. But there are also very real challenges that come along with preserving and even enhancing historic infrastructure like this, especially public infrastructure.
What stands out to me is the possibilities that are present with this site, as well as the recognition that this is somewhat like an old, dilapidated school building or an old dilapidated park. It looks a lot like just a public asset that is now in need of some TLC. As a result of being in a neglected state, it actually contributes to some of the problems of criminal activity, or people using it in ways that don't always build up the neighborhood, because that's what happens when we're not actually paying close attention to it, when there's not much activity taking place there.
What strikes me is, the Strong Towns headquarters is in an old, renovated school that was due to be torn down, and a group, the Friends of that school, emerged and said, "We can retain the structure and we can give it new life." What they're proposing is actually very much within reach in terms of taking that structure and saying it is past its purpose as a road bridge for vehicles, but it has tremendous potential as a connection point, as a way of bringing together this cultural nexus of one state and another state, bringing people into those spaces. Undoubtedly, the idea that you can begin to activate this with an island park and a few other features, that is the way in which you also begin to address some of the social ills that are associated with this bridge.
Keeping it under barricade is actually contributing to the sense that it is off limits, except to those that are in some state of need or some state of willingness to just ignore what the rules require of them. In that context, when you can open that up, that's how you bring that life back into it. The school that the Strong Towns headquarters is in does not have squatters in it. The reason it doesn't have squatters in it is previously, when it was a dilapidated building, it might have. Now it doesn't, because it's activated again. It has a sense of character and purpose and identity. That would seem to be, to me, one of the things that they should be working towards.
So when you look at it, I'm curious what the $9 million that is set aside for it actually is needed for, because the bridge stands as is, and it's unlikely to plummet into the river any day now, from what I understand. That rehab would be a deepening of its longevity, but isn't required right now. So from a Strong Towns perspective, I would ask, what's the next smallest thing that you could do here? Remove the barricades. What's the next smallest thing? Make sure that it's not suitable for vehicles to pass through, but that others are able to navigate that space. Then what's the next thing? Find a way to create destinations. Find a way to create an experience in that corridor.
Yeah, if it's going to benefit the folks at Brattleboro more than it does the folks that are in Hinsdale on the other side of the border, turning that over to an entity that can raise funds from both sides of the state line makes a ton of sense. Friends of Island Park, or some of those groups, do yeoman's work of actually taking existing assets that have lingering value but could definitely be unleashed again. I think that's something that's really compelling. I think you've got some design ideas and other things up your sleeve that even have other projects that you've seen have worked well. Do you have any thoughts on what that might look like?
Well, I have so many thoughts here, but I really have seen and experienced a lot of circumstances where places have kind of trapped themselves in a downward spiral because this idea that improving public space is going to attract more crime or vagrant behavior has—I mean, it's a really common argument that people use against adding benches to places or really adding any improvement to public spaces. But as you pointed out, doing nothing to improve these spaces does not fix the problem. It exacerbates it. It creates space that everyone else doesn't want to be, and so that's really going to be the primary activity that you get.
Just thinking about people who might be committing crimes, I feel they're not going to go to vibrant public spaces where tons of people are. To the extent that they are, it's not going to be the same situation as what you see when you're in a desolate, empty area. I think when you go to really, really busy public spaces in Europe, you might get pickpocketing or something like that, but it's very different than what we're seeing in the United States, with these empty, desolate areas and infrastructure that's being unused, and how that becomes an attraction for people engaging in nefarious behavior.
So that, to me, is really interesting, that so often that is the argument against actually improving spaces, and it's really common in a lot of places. But this does remind me of, we've had a couple of similar situations in Kansas City. We had the Buck O'Neil Bridge, which was formerly called the Broadway Bridge, that was demolished recently. It basically was demolished in 2024 after a new bridge was put in its place. It was kind of sad, because the new bridge, while it was definitely needed, because the Broadway Bridge didn't connect in the way that it needed to connect to the other side—the Broadway Bridge was this beautiful historic landmark, very similar to this bridge. The new highway and the bridge is just, it has no real architectural interest or significance. So when that bridge gets outdated, I can't imagine anybody would be sad to see it go when one day, maybe it's replaced. But yeah, it is unfortunate that we lose these historic landmarks because we can't figure out how to fund an alternative use for it.
But we also do have a bridge in Kansas City that is being reutilized as, it's going to be basically an entertainment district over a river. Yeah, so that is actually going to be the Rock Island Bridge, which is in a different part of the city, outside of the historic West Bottoms, and it connects Kansas City, Missouri to Kansas City, Kansas, although I think it's primarily located in the state of Kansas. But they've come up with a way for both sides to fund its improvement, so that might be a model for this town and other towns with this similar kind of issue to look into, because the Rock Island Bridge does have a funding model that supports the bi-state approach. It also has an approach where the bridge is not just being used as a pedestrian bike corridor, but there's going to be event venues built onto the bridge. There's going to be, I mean, it's amazing. There's going to be places you can get food and beer and sit. So it's actually going to be activated by private restaurants that are leasing space on this bridge, kind of like a food court. People will be able to have weddings on this bridge and host events and parties and that sort of thing.
So it's kind of amazing. They have, if you go to the website, they have diagrams of what it looks like. They're basically building out a whole entertainment district on this thing. So I don't necessarily suggest that that's the only approach for this particular town, but I think it's worth thinking about how to promote activation by private users that have an interest in the space. So I think that goes not just for bridges, but any public space. As much as you can have local businesses along it, or nonprofits or users that can consistently promote activation of the space, even building some density around it so residents actually live on it, and you have eyes on the space, and maybe people's balconies where they can sit out on their balconies and look down at the bridge and at the space. Anything to get eyes on it, I think is the antidote for addressing these crime concerns.
Yeah. What stood out to me, you mentioned in the article, it talks that somebody had proposed, "Well, maybe we can move the state border." This is where, at Strong Towns, we say, humbly observe where people are struggling, and then identify what is the next smallest thing that you can do to address that struggle. The next smallest thing, in this case, is not moving the state border. Also it is not commissioning a study from a renowned landscape engineering firm to figure out what to do. The next smallest thing is try small things. That looks like just installing a few benches, finding some solar-powered lighting, so that way you can do path lighting over the bridge to reclaim it as pedestrian space that is not scary, but actually has some function to it.
Then another key part of it is asking, is there anything that is an extension of Brattleboro that can be merged into the identity of that very bridge? I am assuming, if they've done the work, the diligence of saying, "Hey, we would look at $9 million in terms of whatever that project was," they already know from the structural engineers whether this thing is going to disappear into the water tomorrow or not. In that case, you might have to figure out load limits, for example. We can't have heavy trucks on there. So we need to be careful. We can do an artist market, but we can't do a farmer's market. Okay, that actually helps us to then narrow the scope of the types of activities we should start to see here. Music is a great opportunity. You're in the middle of a really cool area with access to a beautiful, natural island setting. I think that's the idea of, what is the next smallest thing you can do? But then continue to do that process.
My worry with sites like this is that it goes through this exhaustion, and then the big thing stages. So everybody gets exhausted because nothing is being done. Yes, bad things happen on the bridge, quote unquote. Then people are, "Well, we have to do something." Then a big idea is proposed, and it's, "Well, we're exhausted, so we may as well," and most often that means demolition. However, we would say, people already are coming up with ideas. They're already talking. So give them the impetus. Say, "If you create the Friends of the Bridge nonprofit, we'll work together to find that funding. We'll work together to ask the state to assist in that project." You could get to some really cool outcomes as you work at that together as a community.
I just think if we take the same view of, this is somewhat like a dilapidated school building that can be repurposed. It's like an old husk of a warehouse or of a factory, that we can begin to ask those questions. I mean, you're involved in a school rehabilitation project yourself, trying to take it on to look like we know that this can be more. So what's the first more thing that it can be? Then what's the next more thing that it can be? Like you said, bringing eyes there, bringing participation and beginning to give it a sense of character within your space, encouraging public art. So that way it becomes adorned with the fact that it doesn't have to now function as a vehicle pass-through. So in that case, you actually can encourage people to linger. People will want to stay there the moment that the vehicles pounding the bridge are no longer passing by and the noise comes right down, you can hear the river. I'd give anything to be able to hear the river.
Depending on how much trail access they have at the base, there's something special about being on a bridge. We do love that experience, especially if you can also provide shade. Like you said, find ways for food vendors to set up and do cool stuff like that. So the possibilities are endless. But one of the things that gives me hope about this is that Brattleboro actually won the Strongest Town contest two years ago. So Brattleboro, Vermont, they came together as a community. They were super engaged. I would definitely recommend, if you're listening to this, go check out the video that we did about Brattleboro from two years ago on the Strong Towns YouTube channel. Then, because last year, we featured Maumee, Ohio, very different context, and yet they too were grappling with real issues. By the time that this comes out, our third major video on a Strongest Town contest winner is going to come out about Marion, Ohio. Each of them are beautiful videos, in part because they're the recognition these places are grappling with real needs and not shying away from them.
I look at a thing like this, where it's, grapple with the real need. It can't just be, "Well, we think that one bad person or a few bad people are going to cross the bridge. So let's keep it closed." It has far greater utility. I think that we really need to capture that.
Yeah, just looking at a map of this town, it just has such great bones and beautiful little buildings, and looks like it has a lot of really cool local businesses. To the point of the New Hampshire side, though, if you look at this bridge on a map, it's like the town of Brattleboro, it just hugs the border of Vermont and New Hampshire, and that bridge is just outside of their downtown. So while the bridge is directly connected to downtown, it is outside of it. It is in a different state. Then that bridge goes across a portion of the river. It goes to an island that is not utilized. It looks like there's just forests on the island, and then a bit of road goes through the island. It goes across another small bridge and into the mainland of this other town.
When you look at the mainland of this other town in this portion where the river connects, that looks like there is a little big box store of some sort, like a general store. There's a couple of other, there's a marina. But it's mostly suburban. It's really unactivated, and it's very rural. So it looks like it's almost entirely a natural area with conservation, and it is several miles until you get to another downtown.
So I can understand the point that, "Hey, investing in this bridge on the New Hampshire side isn't really going to give us a ton of direct economic benefit in the near term," until they redevelop that side of the bridge or do something different. There's, I understand that there's not a lot of upside from their perspective in how they could economically benefit from being the ones to maintain and take care of the bridge. So having some kind of bi-state agreement, where the town of Brattleboro—they would definitely benefit from this bridge, because it would connect to this natural area. It would connect to trailheads. It would, if you had a trail that went all the way down to the other town, it would provide that connectivity. But I think it's clear that that bridge really is a landmark of a town that it's not in the state of. So kind of an interesting point there. Why, I think if Brattleboro wants this to happen, it probably needs to be an investment that they make to help maintain this bridge and make it happen.
It raises questions for Hinsdale, whether or not they're willing to allow that area where the marina is in, the terminus of the bridge, to be allowed to develop to the next increment of development. Because almost certainly, if you create an opportunity like this, you would expect to see that. I think it's Leon Krier that's done a great job of showing how cities, especially up against waterways, the pressure will build, or the opportunity to build. Then you got a first few pioneers that build on the other side of the river. Those would have been the people that built in that area. Then if you allow it, the nucleus of a new sort of town center can really begin to emerge there and have a great passageway that actually benefits both sides. However, most of the time there's a recognition, "No, we'd rather just leave it the way that it is." So then you get this mismatch of on the one side of the bridge, you've got a vibrant downtown. The other side, you've got a deliberate attempt to not be that. That will be, I think, the bigger reason why we're probably not going to see action on this.
So I know we said no studies, but we should probably go do a study trip there. It looks lovely. I know you're up for time, so we probably have to wrap up as well. But yeah, can't wait to learn more and see what they come up with.
Well, man, there's so much we could say about this, but maybe we'll revisit it, and we won't have time to do the upzone or the downzone today. So I'm sorry to say that. One thing I want to say, though, before we finish today is, did you notice the name of the marina that is next to this bridge?
I didn't know. What is it?
It's called Norm's Marina. So there we go. This is why you picked it.
That's awesome. It's probably some 95-year-old man named Norm because it is a very old man's name, and I love that. It's Norm's Marina. Oh, man, now I really need to go study this place.
Yeah, it sounds like you need to study it. Okay, well, let's keep an eye on this story, and maybe we can pick it back up in the future. Yeah, and a shout out to Norm. Yeah, shout out to Norm. All right. Thank you very much for joining me today, and thank you everyone for listening to another episode of Upzoned. Thanks, Norm.
Thank you, Abby.
This episode was produced by Strong Towns, a nonprofit movement for building financially resilient communities. If what you heard today matters to you, deepen your connection by becoming a Strong Towns member at strongtowns.org/membership.