Upzoned
Who decides when community traditions change? Lafayette, Louisiana, recently rerouted its Mardi Gras parade. The goal was to improve public safety, but the change left neighborhoods, businesses, and long-standing customs in the lurch.
Guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman sits down with Lafayette resident and former city staffer Carlee Alm-LaBar to explore how communities can navigate change while respecting culture and shared ownership.
Transcript (Lightly edited for readability)
Hi there, and thanks for joining us on Upzoned this week. Every week, we take an article in the news and we upzone it: We talk about it from a Strong Towns perspective. As you could probably tell, I'm not our regular host, Abby Newsham. I'm Norm Van Eeden Petersman, and I'm the director of membership for Strong Towns. I'm joined today by the Strong Towns version of an air traffic controller, Carlee Alm-LaBar. She's our chief of staff, and she's worked extensively in the community of Lafayette, Louisiana, in nonprofits and in city governments. That's especially relevant today because we're talking about Mardi Gras and parade routes in the city of Lafayette. Lafayette is proud of its Mardi Gras parade tradition, with five to 10 parades occurring over the weekend, and there are so many superlatives to describe the whole experience. Carlee can give us the stats and the figures to make it clear that Lafayette rivals its better-known New Orleans Mardi Gras in terms of attendance, color, music, and community spirit.
The article that we're discussing today is from the Acadian Advocate, and it's titled, "Residents, crews, downtown businesses weigh in on Jefferson Street, Mardi Gras parade route." But I want you to know that if you go and read through the article and read a little bit into the story, this year's parade preparations are being put under closer scrutiny because they made the decision at the mayor's office to change the route. In October of this year, the mayor told the community that the route would revert back to what she described as the "traditional route," although this meant that the parade area would shrink by about two thirds and no longer proceed through some of the neighborhoods that were accustomed to it. It really does raise one of these core questions of "How do we have a party, make it great, and keep it in the best interests of the community?" So welcome, Carlee. Thank you for joining us and talking about your backyard.
Oh thank you, Norm. I'm so glad to be here.
I want to just touch on the fact that there's all of this interest, all of this outpouring of pride and passion, but there are some real implications to this as well. There's lots of layers to it, including what do we do about crowd control? What are the impacts on small businesses if we move the route versus the previous impacts from the last 30 years with the route being the way that it has been? Things that I wouldn't even have thought about. You said there are vendors that have leases with private property owners for where they intended for the route to go, and now they're having to figure out where on the new route they can set up shop. There are churches that count on parking revenue that won't come to them now that the route has changed. Obviously, there's the disruption of traffic, something that we accept or even embrace when we say, "This is something that builds community and builds capacity in our places."
There's questions being raised about whose interests are being served, even considerations for the downtown folks of, "Hey, we've paid to landscape these areas. Having a parade come through in an area where previously we didn't have it on the route is going to be a difference that will have an impact." Then, just as the changes are brought forward, to think what is the next smallest thing to address struggles that come up? Or do we simply take an approach of, "Well, we'll do it, and then we'll take feedback for next time"? So Carlee, why don't you share some of your initial thoughts? You brought this article up, and I loved it because this is something with energy and excitement to it, but also that hint of drama. Do you want to share a little bit of your thoughts on it?
Yeah. Well, I think first, if it's okay, I want to set the stage a little bit. I didn't grow up in South Louisiana, and until I lived here—which now it's been a long time, more than 25 years—I don't think I realized how deeply many residents come to live and experience Mardi Gras. It's part of the culture year-round in South Louisiana. Certainly there is a peak time, a Mardi Gras season, as many folks know. But I remember when I lived in other places, I would all of a sudden hear someone say, "Oh, it's Mardi Gras today," and that would be my only awareness. Maybe someone would be wearing beads or something. Here it's an entire season in communities like Lafayette or New Orleans or Baton Rouge, and even some of the smaller towns in South Louisiana. It's even going outside of Louisiana—Mobile and Pensacola both have very big Mardi Gras that they would be very proud to share with you. So it's spreading a little bit beyond even the state of Louisiana.
But it is a season. It follows the Epiphany in January, and then it goes until six weeks before Easter. To say that it is a big deal in the community is really an understatement, and for that first part of the year, it is front and center for many folks who live here. Maybe some of the listeners who listen regularly may or may not have that awareness. Maybe they've been to the New Orleans Mardi Gras. Or, of course, I feel the need to champion the one in Lafayette, which is wonderful. Putting that backdrop of the depth of experience for those who live here is an important framework and backdrop, I think, to the story. I can hear others hearing, "changing a parade route," and being like, "Okay, it's just Mardi Gras." But it is what this community lives and breathes in that first part of the year.
The route is about four miles, and the one in Lafayette—at least, the one that most of the parades follow—has been in place for about 30 years. Folks have come to rely on it in a lot of different ways. People will refer to their "Mardi Gras spot," and that's where, "Hey, my friends, my family, once a year, this is where you can find me along the parade route. This is where we set up. This is where we hang out." Sometimes we only see our friends there once a year because we all know we're going to be at the same Mardi Gras spot. So it's just a deep part of the cultural tradition.
The move that the mayor-president put forward in October—one of the key things that has happened in Lafayette in the last 30 years is our key downtown corridor of Jefferson Street has gotten a streetscape and has become one of, if not our most, vibrant corridors. I think when the original project had been done, the parade route had moved off of that corridor, had gone to wider corridors, corridors with now a little bit more space. Parade vehicles are big vehicles, and so this effort was in part to return to that nostalgic parade route of the pre-1990s timeframe. I think that there were several stakeholders that were excited about it, including one of the major Mardi Gras associations. Obviously, as you noted, law enforcement was involved. But obviously, as you've seen from the article—and hopefully our listeners will go and read it—there's been quite a few others that maybe weren't part of the process in the decision to move it and are now concerned about their particular perspective and the impact to their livelihoods or their life.
I wanted to talk, certainly about crowd control, some of the real factors that exist there—or not necessarily crowd control, but public security. But I wanted to start with a broader question: Who owns the parade in the community? Maybe first, is it city operated, or is it actually an operation by a whole host of different hands? And then secondly, that question of deeper ownership, more philosophically: Who is responsible for this thing that we share together?
So many communities have, I think, their own version of this. The folks up in Charlotte, Michigan, they have this Nordic Festival where they just burn things all night, and it's become this point of contention where some people have said, "Well, we need to regularize that," and the folks that are behind it say, "No, let it be what it is. This is something that is so good for us, and we can address consequences or trade the knock-on effects of this, but at the core, we have to retain that sense of community pride and ownership over it." Maybe just to help clarify, if you were to be asked, "Who owns this?" what would you say?
I think in a lot of ways, that might be one of the problems, because I think there was really a lack of clarity in the community about ownership. I think that even when this came forward and there started to be some confusion or some uncertainty about if this was what was wanted by the community, there was discussion about, had there been an ordinance in the past that would govern this? There was even confusion among the attorneys on staff at the city as to whether or not there was an ordinance that governed this and whether or not the mayor-president's office had the ability to change it.
So I think that there have been significant community champions and volunteers who have taken a very active role over the years in an association that is called the Greater Southwest Mardi Gras Association. I think those folks feel a lot of ownership, and so they may feel, to some degree, they own the parade route. But then also, as you alluded to, some of the safety and security that happens alongside Mardi Gras is quite significant, which is obviously, in the case of our police department, a city resource that is pretty significantly deployed, probably our biggest deployment of public safety officials annually. So it is difficult, Norm, to actually answer your question. I think that's part of how we got to where we are—some confusion about whose decision this is to make and how do we make it.
Well, I wonder—I don't want to propose this, but if one of the routes, or one of the early floats, were to simply make a right turn instead of going straight, what does it look like if the community says, "Hey, this is still our route. These are still our familiar paths. This is the process that we're going to follow"? I am probably at risk of being a little bit too loose with some of these things. As you think of what are the obligations that you have to the community, certainly I think, as I think about this as a strong citizen, I would want to be able to be informed, participate in some way of sharing feedback. But also, I think a key element is: What problem is this solving? Do you have a sense of knowledge? Maybe I feel like that's a question that we should often ask as local advocates: What problem is seeking to be solved, and then are there alternatives that haven't been considered? How would you reflect on that?
That's a great question. My suspicion, not having been obviously in the internal conversations, is that there is a real desire—I joked about it at the beginning, but I'm not joking—Lafayette Mardi Gras is one of our seasons of pride, I would say, in terms of visitors and putting our best foot forward. When we think of putting our best foot forward for others to come and celebrate, whether it's people from the region or from other parts of the states or even from other countries, there's no doubt that Jefferson Street, the primary beneficiary of this move, is one of our most intimate, attractive, beautiful, vibrant corridors that we have. I think that when we think about how we want to display Lafayette to the rest of the world, Jefferson Street is certainly one of the key corridors that is put on postcards and things like that. So I suspect that that was one of the driving motivations, combined with, as we said earlier, maybe a nostalgia—which, I don't know that nostalgia necessarily solves a problem, as you suggested. But when you think of the Mardi Gras tradition, perhaps this is another way that it anchors the celebration in our community's roots. But I suspect it was more of the former, of "How do we put on our best performance to all the people who will come see us from far and wide?"
One of the things that we talk about at Strong Towns is our four-step process to public investment. I think there's relevance to that here because we would say: Identify where people are struggling, then identify and do the next smallest thing that you can do to address that struggle. I wonder, especially in circumstances like this where a major change is proposed, if our cities often default to, "Give us feedback, and we'll come back to you next year with any sort of improvements." I'd love to see instead this nimble—you could call it the next smallest thing—task force. Their responsibility is simply, if a property owner says, "Hey, I already leased the front yard, our front space, and I feel like I'm going to be out somehow," figuring out how do we work with you? How do we make it up to you in some small way? It wouldn't have to be recouping everything, but figuring out what are the likely impacts and getting to it.
I'm reminded in my city, in Delta, British Columbia, right when the pandemic happened, one of the things that our city council recognized—we were the first in the region to create a rapid approval process for outdoor patios. What was stunning about it is not only did they create a process to get the approval, they also had almost a concierge system, which is, as soon as you've encountered another complication because you got that approval—so a curb needs to be moved, or the layout of something has to be adjusted, a city sign is now obscured—they had a secondary level, which was, "Bring in that little note of, here's what's going on. Can that sign get moved?" The city acted on that as well. So they knew not just to give that upfront permission or upfront opportunity, but actually to create the conditions where that follow-up didn't just become the now new reason why everybody would reject this.
I think if we abstract out from just this particular example to more broadly, if you're going to bring in changes, what does that change management process actually look like? You had to deal with this as planning director in the city and working in the mayor's office and working with other projects and stakeholders within the community over many years. How well do you adapt to change in the community? How do we actually help people address that little nagging thing that's just there for them, and they're like, "Ah, if it wasn't for that, I'd be okay." Do you have any—what are some of the things that could be done if you were to put on your thinking cap and say, "Between now and March, we know that we've got a ways to go yet"?
Yeah. It's interesting because, of course, it's easy to dream big when you're not in the conversation directly. But it is worth considering. I think one of the things that has happened is the beginning of the route has shortened, and so there are a lot of people, when I talk to the beginning of people having their spots and their places that they go, and the places that they know, "Oh, there's going to be a space for me there," really trying to understand, "Well, maybe, would there be a way that the parade could potentially be longer?" So that some of those historic spots don't necessarily go away, but there is a portion of the parade route that is able to be down Jefferson Street to get some of the benefits that were perceived by moving it. I certainly think that doesn't solve every challenge, but that solves some of the challenges of the folks who feel like they're missing out on what used to be available to them.
Then, taking that same approach to all of the folks that have been impacted in some way. I think the challenge always in public service and providing services is it's very difficult, and in this case, probably close to impossible, to be all things to all people. There are real constraints and sometimes real trade-offs. So it's difficult to be certain that when you're able to provide for one, are you still able to provide for the other? I think that's how, in many cases, this problem has gotten so difficult—almost unwieldy—that the different folks who are speaking up about it from their own perspective all tend to have really valid concerns and valid aspirations. But, of course, I'm at Strong Towns because I love the four-step process, and I love thinking about what is the next smallest thing. Perhaps, if we had that lens, ideally from the very beginning, there may have been ways to make this change in a more gradual format that would have been easier for everybody to get on board with.
Help me understand. So the initial part of the parade route went through a much more residential area, or what we would consider to be a residential area, quieter, a little bit less likely to be disrupted with any sort of regular activity like that, and then it proceeds more into the downtown area, and then winds up at the Cajun Field space. Was there always a mixed audience of folks who said, "Hey, I love it, but I also kind of dread it," or "That's my two weeks to leave the city"? Or was there always, "There's always the people that are so passionate and they're going to miss it," and then other people who are going to feel that sense of immediate relief this year, "I will be able to just be in my home, and I won't have to deal with it"?
But immediately that can be suspicion-laden, that can be class-based. That can be so many different layers to that. How do we grapple with some of those things? Because there will be that sense that now there's a new entrenched interest that says, "Please don't have it come back to my neighborhood." What are some of the things that we can do from a Strong Towns perspective to accept that, "Hey, if this is going through the public realm, these are things that are going to have an impact on those that live adjacent to it, but also we don't have exclusive control over our street that is a shared community responsibility"? How do we garner support for these things, even while accepting that some people will always be against either the new thing or the old thing?
Yeah, I mean, I think you're definitely right. There are people that have lived along the parade route for their whole life, and they are the first ones on the plane out of town when Mardi Gras comes. And then the exact opposite, where this is—they invite their 10 friends over, and they're like, "We don't even leave the house because we're just out in our front yard or out on our street, just enjoying the festivities." So it's honestly a bit of both, which I think is why the change, in some cases, has been so challenging for people. They felt like—I mean, it is not that unusual. People will advertise, people will buy in places where we still have Airbnbs allowed. They will advertise that their Airbnb is on the parade route. So these are things that people would come or have come to depend on. It's kind of scary when you think about that—it was a little bit amorphous in terms of who was in control because there were so many people that were depending on it.
It's very interesting because the ordinance that the article refers to is an ordinance to basically have the City Council form a committee, and that committee advises, and then the City Council ultimately makes the decision. A lot of the messaging against that ordinance is to, "Keep the city out of Mardi Gras."
I forgot to mention that in the intro—there is this, not a rival ordinance, but a follow-up to the mayor's initial action in October to change the route based on the city's guidance. That was then met with a council member who said, "Well, this properly belongs to the people, ergo Council is going to establish a committee, and then that committee can approve things or reject things, not just for Mardi Gras, but for a range of any kind of activities that are involving street closures and other things like that." Now the question is, does that actually, in a back way, formalize that every street closure is something that a committee has to review? That has a lot of implications for things like block parties or other types of things that are also—many of these Mardi Gras festivals were spontaneous gatherings for the purpose of proceeding from one place to another.
We hosted a block party, which had far less noise and a lot less activity than Mardi Gras. But people said, "Oh, did you get a permit?" I said, "Don't tell anybody in Delta, but no, of course not," because I actually reject the idea that such a thing should be required. I think there's an element there that mirrors what the folks in Port Arthur, Texas—they also have a great Mardi Gras parade each year, and they had it going through their neighborhoods. The black community really embraced Mardi Gras together with the Acadian community, and then it was moved by the city and the tourism department out to a whole other area. The intent was to bring wealthier people to be able to show up, enjoy Mardi Gras, and then leave again without having to be so ingrained in the neighborhood. That was 20 years back, and yet the wounds still were real. It was like, "Wow, that's really significant," in that sense of co-opting ownership over something that otherwise was a community-shared asset.
The other thing too, whenever I hear that police have identified this route or that route, I will often say we need to put the cart behind the horse again, which is: Tell the route to the community safety professionals and say, "This is the route we would gain. We appreciate guidance, but your responsibility is to protect it." If you say there is something that is simply non-negotiable, "We cannot have the route actually cross an active freeway," sure, but in many cases, we get into these situations—and Strong Towns is critical of some of the public safety professions that are very quick to say, "We have veto. We actually have—we will be the ones that create the route, present it to you, and then make that the case." I'm not saying that that's what's happened here in Lafayette, but I do think that there's a pattern there that sometimes there can be this technical know-how that declares things off-limits that the community says, "No, that's not off-limits. That's our decision. We're going to make it. And then you get to decide how you're going to react to those circumstances, rather than dictating they can't happen in the first place." I'm not anti-government, but sometimes I sound like it, Carlee.
Well, you know, I think that—I mean, I think that when you think about it from the perspective of the public safety officer, they are always like, "Okay, how do I create the conditions that are going to make it the most safe possible?" I think that what we're always trying to do at Strong Towns is say, "Yes, but there's always a balance of values." We often talk about it in terms of street design, and so I'll go there first. But if the fire truck has the curbs with the turning radii that allow them to never mess up a curb, and therefore they can drive really fast—well, that's great, but if that just creates more distance and more speed that our pedestrians aren't safe anymore in our neighborhoods, these are the things that we trade off.
I think that understanding the complexity of public safety decisions is something that I think Strong Towns does a great job bringing to the table. If you do go read this article, it is very much from the perspective of, "We had a route and checked that it could be kept safe." I think that you have a lot of other stakeholders in the conversation raising their hand to say, "But did you check X?" And that X thing is the thing that's important to them. So I think that, understandably, our public safety professionals—they need—they're expected to keep us safe. They need to be excellent at communicating what that is. But I think that we also need people in positions of leadership who are able to talk about the other values that the community values. Because absolutely there are many other things that community members value that also need to be advocated for. I think that's what you saw come out in this article, and some of the business interests that are concerned, or the organizational interests that are concerned, that don't feel like maybe they had the same opportunity to speak before there was a new route kind of proposed and out there.
You worked in planning within the city, and you've certainly been watching as the city matures and grows. How is it that there isn't another Jefferson Street? Maybe I'm asking that a little bit provocatively, but if there are things on a street that we so highly value because it's where postcards are printed of in spades, because that's where people want to have their pictures taken, that's what they want to remember—how is it that in our ordinances, we've actually made many of those spaces impossible to build or recreate on adjacent streets so that all of the streets, not only through the downtown, but then in areas that are adjacent to the downtown, would start to resemble some of the local flavor and culture that stands out on Jefferson Street? Do you have any reflections on why is it that Jefferson Street is the place that the route has to go? In part because it's the only place where you'd be able to capture that sense of wall-to-wall activity and all of the color and the vibrancy that goes with it.
It can be difficult. I think that we are—we face this at Strong Towns every day. I think streets are a lot of—people don't think of streets as productive places for communities. They think of streets as serving their transportation purpose alone and getting them to and from the place they need to go as quickly as possible. When they experience great streets, they want more of them. But then when that starts to become a reality, even with the next street, you immediately hear, "Well, we can't do that because I need that to travel to my work or my office or whatever." So I think—I mean, you're right. We have plenty of good work to do here in Lafayette to make more streets like Jefferson Street. I think that we can. But yeah, it's a good challenge, Norm. I like it.
I've never—this thought just occurred to me, so bear with me if it doesn't work. But the analogy of the way that we treated rivers for decades, almost a couple centuries, that rivers, much like streets, were the place that you use. Yes, to connect things to, things would just get dumped onto them. Then all of a sudden, communities began to realize, "We had a gem. We had a natural asset. We had something wonderful," and then we took a dim view of it, partly because we were putting all these pollutants into it. Part of it was—there's, I think, a good reason why we talk about some streets as just being car sewers, much like our rivers became sewers in a lot of places, and then that turn.
If we began to really deeply value each of these streets as places to build prosperous opportunities for so many different participants, then you would really have that view that says, "We want this to be a little cleaner," but clean is not the only attribute of a great place. It's actually got to allow for beauty. It's got to allow for various uses. It can't just be a single monolithic user of that space that is getting to dictate the shots of what we do with that. I often wonder what—or kind of reflect on what Chuck has talked about in the city of Charleston, where he said, "Yes, the 13 blocks that are historic Charleston are in one sense wonderful, but the question is, why didn't that happen in the rest of the city to be able to continue a pattern that's so financially productive in greater reach out from there?"
But also what's happened in that area is you've turned it into a mini museum, rather than allowing even those blocks to redevelop, to gradually thicken up and improve and mature over time. I think that comes to mind as we think of some of these places. Our downtowns are our money pits—they—I'm sorry, money pots. They are. They're full of life. Wait, what are you talking about? No, money pit, money pot. It is definitely our money pot, and such an important resource, and I love it.
One of the things that we talk about with our Strong Town strengths test is, if there were a revolution in your town, would people instinctively know where to gather to participate? I think that's especially relevant with this one. If you're interested, there's a list of 10 items on the Strong Towns site about the Strong Town strengths test. But this one is especially relevant: Do people instinctively know where to gather to participate in the life-giving activities of our communities? From that perspective, the new route seems to work, but in maybe another respect, what I love about this is the level of interest in this. Can you describe why that is such an important quantity within our communities, and where you've seen communities struggle to grapple with widespread or deeply felt pride and interest? And then the other areas where you've seen people really harness that and use it to get to better?
Yeah, I think that that's one of the reasons that this story was interesting to me and why I even suggested that we talk about it on Upzoned. Because on its surface, you're like, "It's just a Mardi Gras route." But it's really touched on something a lot deeper to a lot of people who are involved in one way or the other and kind of shown, I think, the depth of importance that these community institutions—even though this is more of an event, I also think of it as a community institution—and how important it is to just a variety of sectors and how they celebrate it in different ways.
I know of a bakery in town—this only has to do with Mardi Gras, not necessarily the route—but they get close to 70% of their revenue during King Cake season. This is people's livelihoods. The opportunity to have a public discussion that allows us to share our values and hopefully productively move forward—I think that probably everybody involved in this conversation has learned a lot. Whether they now find themselves on opposite sides with someone that they really care about, they now have perspectives that we didn't start the conversation with in terms of, "Frankly, what does Mardi Gras mean to me?"
There are some people for whom it's the center of their cultural tradition. There are some people for whom it's their business's best time of the year. There are some people who—it's when they leave town. I think you've started to see this—it gives you a sense of how important it is that we really approach these community-wide institutions and events with a real respect about, "We can't freeze them." But so if they're going to grow with the times, just like we talk about housing and communities, the change needs to be incremental so that it can change and it can continue to adapt, but maybe not so drastically that it is tearing community apart at some level. It's very hard.
I can't wait to one day come. Maybe I've got to make the arrangements. We'll have to do a national gathering there or something, have it over lunch. But what is it that makes it awesome? How does it compare to other Mardi Gras if you want to go there? But also, what can anybody expect if they show up in Lafayette?
Oh my goodness. Well, it is—I mean, of course, I'm biased. I think people will say it is a more family-friendly Mardi Gras. So if the—I have certainly been to some great parades in New Orleans that were very family-friendly. But I certainly think the reputation of New Orleans is more raucous. Lafayette's Mardi Gras is very family-friendly. There is always a ton to do. So it's a great community, and it's hundreds of thousands of people celebrating and enjoying this celebration of culture. It's such a unique time of year, and people are happy to be a part of a community-wide celebration. I feel like we don't have a ton of those, and so it's just kind of South Louisiana's flagship, I would say, celebration of culture. It's great to be a part of, and if anybody's listening and they want to come visit, let me know because I'd love to show them around.
Yeah, and I got two more questions. What do I need to eat while I'm there? And what do I need to drink while I'm there?
Oh my gosh, so I am the worst at this, but I will try. I mean, you of course need to have gumbo. That's probably—I mean, there's plenty of things—you can't get bad food in South Louisiana. There's gas stations that you can go into and have the best plate lunch of your life. Drinking. Man, I'm not the greatest, but you're always going to find good stuff at any restaurant or bar. They'll have something set up for you, so you're not going to go hungry or thirsty if you make it to Mardi Gras in South Louisiana. You have to have a King Cake. Absolutely have to.
Well, it's a good thing that Christmas is coming up here at the time of recording this, because otherwise I would be so distracted by everything that lies ahead of me in Mardi Gras that I wouldn't even be able to focus. But I've got to look forward to Christmas baking, all of the good stuff that's coming. But we're going to pivot over to the Downzone, which is where we just chat about what it is that we are taking in that is—I would say, actually, maybe I'll make it a rule—it can't be Strong Towns related, Carlee. So what are you reading or taking in that is of interest to you?
Well, this is only sort of Strong Towns related, so I'm going to break the rule. For our team, we're reading a book called Unreasonable Hospitality, and I am very much enjoying it, in part because, as I joke around when I'm talking to you or Chuck or others, I'm always trying to make friends. So I'm enjoying the book because it takes a restaurant experience in New York City and how they—I'm not all the way through, so I don't know what happens in the end—but just how they used their team to build an outstanding restaurant, and they looked at every level to think what could they do differently to make it this unreasonably hospitable place to dine, and that was part of their secret to their excellence. I've really enjoyed it. I think I'm about halfway through, and I'm looking forward to rooting for them that at the end they get their four-star rating.
Yeah, I love it. Actually, I'll say too, as a little bit of programming in my work, especially with our membership program, if there's anything—and you want to use a bit of a touchstone that will get our attention—just say, "Look, if there's a complaint that you have or something that's come up, this is not consistent with an unreasonable hospitality mindset." That will be like catnip, and we'll be like, "All right, we've got to adjust that." We truly, I think internally, we are taking that approach already.
I want to highlight, just for my Downzone item, a book by Kevin Van Tighem from Lethbridge, Alberta, and it's called Understory: An Ecologist's Memoir of Loss and Hope. It was a birthday present to me from my mother-in-law. I've started to work my way through it, and it is beautiful. It's just wonderfully written. It's almost like poetry, somewhat similar to another book that I'd recommended a while ago called Streams of Consequence by another Lethbridge author, and both of them are like fine chocolate that you need a glass of wine to go with, and you just work through it. But it is this reflection on the understory. What do we see when we actually take a look at the finer details, peel back the leaf litter, take a look at life? I think there are so many applications of that metaphor to the work of being a strong citizen in our community.
I'm fascinated by the connection between permaculture and its approach to healing our natural landscapes, healing our farming practices. But then actually, many of the same applications can be made to the way that we build our stronger communities, even doing things like treating a street like a good river and saying, "Let's not allow it to become polluted. Let's allow it to be really vibrant and be all that it can be." I get really excited because I think when we take the skills of a conservation biologist and apply them to the question and the opportunity to examine how our cities work, we can learn so much. So that's the item that I have for today for the Downzone, and I definitely recommend it. You will come along on a bit of a journey with me if you do that. Otherwise, go and read Unreasonable Hospitality. That is another great book. What I like about it is too, it's cross-discipline. It's taking stuff from a totally different field and saying, "How do we apply that for our Strong Towns team?" but also, more broadly, for the Strong Towns movement.
With that, folks, thank you, Carlee, for jumping in today to be our guest on Upzoned.
It was great. Thanks, Norm. I enjoyed it.
And for all the folks at the Lafayette tourism department, you can send us a check in the mail for having promoted the Lafayette Mardi Gras festival so well. But truly, I think this has been a provoking conversation in good ways, and I appreciate you all taking the time to listen in. So take care and take care of your places, folks.
This episode was produced by Strong Towns, a nonprofit movement for building financially resilient communities. If what you heard today matters to you, deepen your connection by becoming a Strong Towns member at strongtowns.org/membership. Thank you.