Tiffany Owens Reed  0:00  

Hi everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Bottom-Up Revolution podcast. I'm your host Tiffany Owens Reed. One of the questions I'm most fascinated by when I think about how we can best improve our cities is how to restore a sense of agency to ordinary citizens. How can we make it possible for everyday residents to solve some of the problems they see in their community? Today's guest, coming to us from Lafayette, Louisiana, has created an opportunity for residents in his community to do just that. By day, Butch Roussell is deep in the world of managing clinical trials for biotech and pharmaceutical companies. But in his spare time, he runs the 24 Hour Citizen Project, an annual live event designed to connect everyday citizens with the expertise and resources they need to turn their wildest ideas into reality. It's like a shark tank for citizens who want to proactively solve challenges they see around town. Over the last decade, the 24 Hour Citizen Project has taken flight, funding over 37 incredible projects to the tune of $170,000 and counting. Butch, welcome to The Bottom-Up Revolution podcast.

Butch Roussel  1:12  

Tiffany, happy to be here. One of my favorite things is listening to other people talk about the 24 Hour Citizen Project and the work that we do in different words than we're used to explaining. And that was perfect, spot on.

Tiffany Owens Reed  1:26  

Excellent. I wish I had left the sound effects feature on for this software. I could do, like a drum roll or something.

Butch Roussel  1:31  

You deserve it.

Tiffany Owens Reed  1:32  

All right. Well, Butch, I'm looking forward to bringing your story to our audience. Let's start things off. Can you tell us a little bit about where you're from, how you came to call Lafayette home, and tell us a bit about your town? What do you love about it, and what do you think are some of its struggles?

Butch Roussel  1:48  

Yeah. I'm a Louisiana guy. One of the best things about Louisiana, in my opinion, is that people never leave. It seems we love the place that we live. If we leave, we realize that there are some things that Louisiana is calling us back for and so we ultimately end up coming home. I'm from a town called Hammond, Louisiana. It's a smaller town right north of New Orleans. At the time of growing up, it was around 120,000 people, and it's known for its quaint little downtown. Hammond downtown was cool before downtowns were cool. We say that often. Currently, I live in Lafayette, Louisiana. I hate to sound like such a jock, but I came here to play football in 2002, left for a little while after college, came back, married a Cajun girl, and and this is kind of where I settled. Lafayette is known for the richness of culture, the food, the festivals, the people, its music, Mardi Gras, and an awesome faith community. So it should be no secret that people kind of stick around.

Tiffany Owens Reed  3:04  

For people who've never been, can you just paint a picture of the town? Like when you come to Lafayette, what is it like? If you had to kind of explain, like, "Oh, this is what it's going to be like driving around town."

Butch Roussel  3:32  

Oh man, what an interesting question. We're not a coastal town. We've got a downtown that's cool, that's also kind of up and coming. Been that way for a while. The reality is, we've got a big sprawl here. So Lafayette is kind of the core. Around Lafayette are some neighboring parishes or counties. We see a lot of growth that's outside of the core of Lafayette, and that's kind of it. There's not a ton of scenery, I guess, in fairness, but there's also swamps and good fishing around and camps that people go visit often.

Tiffany Owens Reed  4:21  

Awesome. So let's talk about 24 Hour Citizen Project. Can you share the story behind how this started and how it's evolved over time? Because I know from our earlier conversation, it kind of started out as a crowdfunding platform and then it grew into something more similar to like a shark tank competition for local citizens. So I'd love for you just to share the story. What was going on in your life, where did this idea come from, and how has it evolved over the past couple years?

Butch Roussel  4:53  

About 10 years ago, I signed up for a leadership program that Lafayette was offering. It was kind of a gateway into learning all things community. Growing up, it's not something that was necessarily taught in school or instilled in you, like, "This is how you become a citizen that contributes." And the program really lit a fire into me, making me realize that I could either be a consumer of the community or a contributor. And how I can be a citizen that makes an impact. I had this idea to launch a community crowdfunding website because I was reading at the time, in some research that the indiegogos and the gofundmes of the world had projects on their website that were 70% more likely to be successful if the project was in the public realm. And so we launched a crowdfunding website here that felt local and was built for citizens, and we funded, actually, a parklet project in our downtown, to build a sitting structure in in a parking spot. The project was funded in two days, and the thing was built in just two weekends. And it was kind of a proof-of-concept project for us. It proves that, if you give citizens the tools, they'll get things done. We went on to do another art project called the Why Lafayette Project. If you've ever been to Lafayette, it's an art installation in one of our main parks. And then we went on to install drinking water fountains for folks in the community. It was through that experience that we felt that citizens deserve these kinds of tools. There's a lot of good organizations in town, nonprofits that are doing good work in the community. But if Tiffany and I are having a discussion, you know, a water cooler conversation, as we call it, about how to do some good in the community, as a citizen, sometimes I feel powerless. I'm not sure how to pursue that work. So we decided to transition the crowdfunding platform into an annual event that we called the 24 Hour Citizen Project. And that's the backstory of how things evolved.

Tiffany Owens Reed  7:23  

What's the story behind the name? Why do you call it 24 Hour Citizen Project?

Butch Roussel  7:27  

Well, it's funny you ask. We went back and forth about this for a long time. It was originally the 48 Hour Citizen Project, and then we got a little bit more ambitious and decided the 24 Hour Citizen Project. We felt like we needed more time initially to work through these projects. But we put a timeline around it because we stripped everything from the crowdfunding concept. You take ideas, you have funding, and then you have timelines usually wrapped around crowdfunding, which I think really pushes the needle. So what if we took all of those things and we put it into a celebration event, and call it the 24 Hour Citizen Project? So we got the name because we wanted a timeline built around it.

Tiffany Owens Reed  8:31  

So walk us through this event. If I'm someone who's noticed something around town, and I want to be a competitor, what is that like? What is the participant's experience?

Butch Roussel  8:44  

Yeah. Well, the first thing that we always say is we meet you where you are. So let's say Tiffany has an idea to install bike racks in her community, and she doesn't know how to get it done, she's slightly insecure about sharing it because it's something that she's passionate about but she's worried about execution. The first step is sharing your idea, encouraging citizens to share it. We would invite you to idea exchanges, which are precursor events to our big event in November, where you would come and share that idea with other folks in the community. And what happens is, over time, as you share that idea, you build confidence in the idea. Two, you also get feedback from other people in the community. Then the third thing, which is where all the magic really happens, is you get people that love your idea so much they say, "Tiffany, I want to help you get this done. Can I be on your team?" From there, you would apply to participate in the 24 Hour Citizen Project. You would then get chosen hopefully. You show up on a Friday night, which is hour zero of the 24 hours. During that Friday night, you show up with your team, and we -- referring to the 24 Hour Citizen Project and all the organizers -- have a carefully curated list of people that you need to meet with to install your bike racks. So it could be designers, it could be city representatives, it could be all of the expertise that you might need to pursue that project. From there, you work through the night, or at least late into the night. You show up the next morning and we do some pitch practice. Then, at 6pm on Saturday, at hour 24, you pitch that idea to an audience and a panel of backers, which are like the sharks, and compete for funding.

Tiffany Owens Reed  10:48  

That sounds like a lot of fun.

Butch Roussel  10:49  

Yes, it is. I'm partial, but it certainly is.

Tiffany Owens Reed  10:54  

What is it like to attend one of these events? What is it like from someone who's not participating or competing, but attending and watching? What would they see? What would the energy be like in the room?

Butch Roussel  11:03  

Yeah, you'd likely walk in and you would see somebody like you, Tiffany, running down a human tunnel with a walkout song and a lot of celebrating. And you'd be like, "Where have I arrived? What is this thing?" Look, I'm halfway kidding but I'm not, because both of those things are true. There is a human tunnel and a walkout song, but it's intended to be a celebration of community. It's intended to be a supportive environment for citizens who are boldly sharing their ideas, and it's really a place to fall back in love with your community. It's interesting that the event is every November, and every couple years is an election year, and the event finds a way to break down all political barriers. Everybody gets on board with citizens wanting to do good in their community. It's kind of a beautiful thing, and it has that brand amongst the community here in Lafayette.

Tiffany Owens Reed  12:13  

So how many people are usually competing every year? I don't know if you've seen trends, or if it tends to be the kind of the same number.

Butch Roussel  12:21  

So, we get a bunch of applications. The worst thing about the 24 Hour Citizen Project is that you can only choose eight teams to compete. That's pretty much all the event can support. And of those eight, we usually see about four that are funded at the event.

Tiffany Owens Reed  12:38  

Okay, so talk to me about the investor side. I'm assuming you're spending time around and building partnerships with people who could function as potential investors. Can you talk to us about that?

Butch Roussel  12:50  

Yeah. Believe it or not, finding investors, backers, to participate is the easiest task that we have here. Finding ideas is the biggest challenge, but the backer call to action is basically a business or individuals in the community puts up 1500 bucks and sits in the panel and funds projects. So it's businesses, it's individuals, it's friends, it's family, it's co-workers, you name it. Anybody could participate being a backer.

Tiffany Owens Reed  13:27  

That's awesome. Tell us about the impact that you've seen. This is the ninth year, the ninth event. We mentioned in your intro that you funded 37 projects at a total of $170,000. Can you talk to us about some of those projects and what you've seen?

Butch Roussel  13:49  

Oh, yeah. So, you know, it's hard to rattle off all the projects, but-

Tiffany Owens Reed  13:57  

We can do this together. Number 37, Number 36.

Butch Roussel  14:11  

Let's go rapid fire.

Tiffany Owens Reed  14:11  

How fast can we do this?

Butch Roussel  14:11  

37 projects in 37 seconds.

Tiffany Owens Reed  14:11  

You should write a rap about all the projects you've ever funded, and then it just grows every year. You have to figure out how to get them all in there.

Butch Roussel  14:12  

That's actually a really good idea. I'll take that back to the board. No, look, we've seen everything from art murals to after-school programs for kids. We've seen folks coming in wanting to bring food into food desert areas, sensory safe spaces for kids at our festivals, so that parents can come and enjoy festivals. We've got food pantries, we've got art pantries, we've got little libraries in barber shops on our north side. We've got projects for veterans. We've got bike racks. We've got training programs to increase the number of doulas in town. We've got walking parades that were funded that are still happening today. It's an amazing thing to see what citizens come up with. It's incredible every year.

Tiffany Owens Reed  15:20  

Yeah. Okay. So I want to now go back to something you said at the very beginning of this. You were talking about how you felt powerless as a citizen to change things that you were noticing. Now you're in year nine and you're watching all these incredible, ordinary people notice issues and notice where their community is struggling. Like Strong Towns says, that's kind of the first step, notice where your community is struggling. And the funding pool is not huge. Like, people aren't walking away with $50,000, $100,000. What's the average funding amount?

Butch Roussel  15:52  

It's about $4,000 to $5,000 bucks.

Tiffany Owens Reed  15:55  

Yeah, okay. And it sounds like it's launch money and then they figure out ways to keep going over time. I'm just curious how this experience has shaped your thinking on why it is so hard to get things like this done more often in our cities. I love the story you told at the start of building a parklet in two weekends, and getting it funded in two days. I think if you go to most cities and you ask them for a parklet, you'd be lucky if you got any progress on it in like a year.

Butch Roussel  16:31  

Yeah, right. I think a lot of this, Tiffany, is about how we view ourselves in the community. It takes all kinds, as we say, and that means it takes all facets. I think the risk is always being part of an awesome community and sitting back and thinking that all of the problems are going to be solved by someone else or by your local government. I think there's an element of that that can be true, but it doesn't have to be that way. When I felt powerless, it was self induced. And that's what I've learned over the years. You never see yourself as as the solution to the problem. You also see, and this is something that we've learned over the years, that sometimes the problems are so big that you feel like you don't have the capacity to solve them. "What is my small effort going to mean in the big scale of the problem?" The special thing about the 24 Hour Citizen Project is that, project by project, bit by bit, year by year, you're slowly chipping away in having some micro successes that are attainable. These projects are intentionally small, at $5,000, because we want to see the work get done. And if that work is even small projects over the years, then we're making an impact. So I think a big piece of this is really seeing ourselves as contributors to the community, rather than consumers, something we alluded to at the beginning of the call.

Tiffany Owens Reed  18:27  

I think part of it, though, and you can push back on this, is that our cities don't seem to have transparent, easily accessible mechanisms for citizens to participate and solve problems. I think people do try to get involved, and then they get hit with like, "Oh, you have to go to a bazillion committees, or you have to follow all these rules, or it has to be in compliance, we have to do a study, or we can't do it if we don't have this fancy professional from out of town tell us that it's a good idea." That's my frustration. How would you respond to that?

Butch Roussel  18:59  

My honest answer is that I've never experienced that, because we've always had the 24 Hour Citizen Project, at least over the last 10 years. So there's an avenue there for for people. I don't know. I think that's something that all communities really navigate.

Tiffany Owens Reed  19:23  

I mean, I think there's two sides of it. If someone listening to this is working in local government, I think there is an opportunity to consider, like, maybe we're sitting on a ton of brilliant solutions to the challenges in our community because we haven't created a mechanism for citizens to just go solve problems. Maybe it's not their job to create that mechanism, but I think it is a big part of the story. I think the other side of the story is what you're saying about the way we see ourselves. Do we see ourselves as contributors? I think it does take both sides working together, like citizens being willing to step up and say, "Hey, I think we can solve this." And then the city having partnership with the community, recognizing the value of citizen initiative, can also help those ideas go a long way. What have you seen in terms of how the people who've been doing these projects have been able to collaborate with local government or with other nonprofits or city staff to make some of these ideas a reality and to keep them going? I'm assuming you've probably seen a good amount of collaboration in that regard.

Butch Roussel  20:33  

Yeah. I mentioned the Friday night, which is the work night. One of the things that we try and do intentionally, whenever we set up meetings with all the people that the project needs, is include council men and women, or anybody within our local government. And I think, to your point, you're absolutely right, it's kind of a two way street. The teams need that level of dialog, whether it be for permissions, but I also think it's equally important that our public officials see the work that's being done. It broadcasts the capability of the community and what they're capable of. It's the "many hands make for light work" concept, that we've got to leverage the community to do work. And sometimes that means that we just have to let us do. So that's how we've built the program around it.

Tiffany Owens Reed  21:45  

I love that idea of creating space for citizens to just solve problems and figuring out how to best come alongside ordinary people who are noticing where the community is struggling and who have ideas to solve those problems. Can you tell us a bit about what you've seen in terms of the ideas people are bringing to the table? What are people noticing around town? Have you noticed any interesting patterns or things that people are noticing repeatedly, over time?

Butch Roussel  22:28  

Yeah, it's a good question. Every year from June to August, we launch applications with the call of actions. Like, "Hey, citizens of the community, share your ideas with us!" Each year, it feels like there's a theme in all of the applications that we get. Two years ago was kids. Right around covid was sort of social, cultural issues that would come. Last year was around food desert areas. So that's been interesting. Year after year, you get a flavor for what folks in the community are really passionate about. The other thing that's interesting is understanding where the ideas come from. Internally, we talk about how there's cool and sexy ideas, which are like your painted bike racks in your downtown, and then there are ideas that are really built around big needs in the community that need solutions. So it's interesting where the ideas come from. A lot of ideas come from low-income areas, because that's where the needs are. And we're happy to provide that level of community support.

Tiffany Owens Reed  24:08  

I feel like that's one of the coolest parts of this ecosystem and this platform you're creating. It really allows the needs of the community to emerge in this organic and bottom-up fashion, and also the solutions to be equally organic and bottom-up but also very collaborative. I'm sure year after year, as you see those applications, you're probably learning something new about your city as you're reading what people are noticing. I think that's so neat, because not everyone can notice everything.

Butch Roussel  24:46  

One of the things that is so special about the process is engaging in discussion about the needs of the community. Have you ever walked into a neighborhood, knocked on doors, and asked citizens of community, "What are the things that you need in your neighborhood?" It is a phenomenal discussion to have. There's an element of this where we do that every year, and there are fruits that come out of those discussions, whether they make it on stage for the 24 Hour Citizen Project or not. It almost feels like a social experiment as well. Like, if you've ever campaigned for a friend and you go knock on doors in a neighborhood, it sort of has that feel where you're really doing outreach in a neighborhood, rolling your sleeves up and encouraging people to get to work. It's really neat.

Tiffany Owens Reed  25:54  

What would you say is the biggest challenge you all are facing right now, or that you're thinking through as an organization?

Butch Roussel  26:06  

We're a volunteer led organization, and it's been that way since the beginning. So just making sure that we've got a certain level of enthusiasm and love for the work. I call it falling back in love with this work every year and making sure that we're doing the work that the community needs. The other is the pressure to fund larger and bigger projects. There are a lot of problems in communities that could use the support of the 24 Hour Citizen Project, but we're just not able to make an impact there because of the scale and the size of the project. So just making sure that we're still doing the right thing by funding smaller projects. Those are some of the discussions that we have from time to time, just challenging ourselves, making sure that we're seeing things right.

Tiffany Owens Reed  27:13  

Have most of the projects that have been funded continued over the past couple of years?

Butch Roussel  27:18  

Yeah, that's one of the neat things about the work of citizens. People get involved to do this, and they get their idea funded. And over years, what you end up seeing is that the walking parade that you once funded in 2017 is one of the one of the featured Mardi Gras events. The toiletry pantry that you built on the north side is continuing to be stocked and service the neighborhood. The pet waste stations that are in your downtown are continuing to get used and appreciated by the citizens that live here and have dogs that they walk every day. So, yeah, a lot of these projects go on to continue to grow, year after year, and make an impact in the community, which is kind of the fruits of the labor.

Tiffany Owens Reed  28:18  

Yeah, I can imagine that question over scale. I can imagine it's similar to the original part of your story, where you started out as crowdfunding and then you shifted to the shark tank model.  I can imagine there's probably some similar tensions around deciding the questions around scale. Do we focus on small? Do we try to provide different levels of scale of funding for different types of projects? There's definitely trade offs with both models. Where would you like to see 24 Hour Citizen Project go? How would you like to see it grow? Do you have ideas of helping other cities apply this model?

Butch Roussel  28:56  

We've talked about it, and we want to share our work to the extent that we can. So always open to having other communities come watch and see what we're doing. We've even talked about developing a playbook that other communities might be able to download and riff. But I think growth is just continuing to do the work year after year, project by project, just by making sure that we're still doing good work. I think there's an element to this where I think we have this tendency to always evaluate the work that we're doing and sizing it right. Is the 24 Hour Citizen Project supposed to grow? I think that's the question that we've got to ponder from time to time. Are we limiting the work that can be done just by staying in Acadiana and the Lafayette area? Right now, that's just where we are, just trying to do good work here. And I think that should be okay.

Tiffany Owens Reed  30:13  

I think so too. Yeah. This is kind of one of those Strong Towns warnings. You should tread carefully with idea of growth for growth's sake. I think there's something to the idea of prevailing. What if just continuing to exist well is a goal? What if we just did that?

Butch Roussel  30:45  

Yeah. I've never heard it put that way, but I sort of feel comfort in hearing that, to be honest with you. Just continuing to do the work and letting that be okay.

Tiffany Owens Reed  31:01  

Right. And maybe letting the next step or the next chapter kind of emerge organically. But I do think we have a very growth-centric culture, like, "How are you going to scale, how are you going to grow, how are you going to get bigger, how are you going to do more, how are you going to get more money?" And like, hold on, what about just doing it well? I'm sure there's tension to that, because we want to make a big impact. We want to help. I'm sure someone can make the case that, if you had a model that was bigger better, you could be helping more communities. We're not going to solve that tension on this podcast, but I think it's good to recognize that it's there. But I think it's also good to recognize there's a lot of value in wanting to continue to exist for a long period of time, doing what we're doing and doing it well. I think there's something to be said for that as well. Well, in closing, can you share with us a little bit more about your town? I always ask my guests, what are a couple of places you like to recommend people check out if they come to visit to get a slice of local life?

Butch Roussel  32:11  

Oh, yeah. Well, my first advice would be, I wouldn't come to Lafayette for a day and expect to fall in love with it. It's a place that you come and you settle in, you visit our downtown, you try every restaurant.

Tiffany Owens Reed  32:28  

So we have to move to Lafayette.

Butch Roussel  32:29  

Yes, that's exactly right. Not that it takes that long.

Tiffany Owens Reed  32:34  

That's a good perspective, honestly. I feel like no one else has ever said that, but I think you're onto something. I probably would say the same thing about Waco in some ways. That's the city where I'm at.

Butch Roussel  32:43  

Yeah. Not that you show up and it's ugly and you're turned off by it. Not that at all.  I don't want listeners to think that. Anytime you come in to experience culture and the joy of people, it's a place that you need to settle into. And I think that's just what Lafayette is. But I'd come to our downtown, I'd try all the restaurants. I'd visit Moncus Park. You might plan your trip around a festival. We have the largest free international music festival in the world.

Tiffany Owens Reed  33:20  

Wow.

Butch Roussel  33:21  

Yeah. Festival Acadiana, which is every October. The other thing that people don't know, Tiffany, is that Mardi Gras in Lafayette and the surrounding towns is like, perfect. It's where you want to be. A lot of people go to New Orleans, and then they're in the party scene. If bourbon is not your vibe, I'd recommend coming to Lafayette for Mardi Gras, finding your way to some of the outlying towns outside of Lafayette, and just sitting back and soaking in like a real cultural Mardi Gras.

Tiffany Owens Reed  33:57  

Do you have a favorite third place you like to take friends, like coffee shop, restaurant, pub, anything like that?

Butch Roussel  34:05  

That was your question and I went out left field, I'm sorry. In our downtown, we've got Rev Coffee. We've got Carpe Diem, it's got coffee that's awesome. We've got Blue Moon Saloon, always having good music. We've got Central Pizza, we've got Vestal, and maybe Spoon Bill, good outside venue. Go check those out.

Tiffany Owens Reed  34:35  

Awesome. Okay, so, can I tell you about my idea that I would pitch if I was coming on to 24 Hour Citizen Project, but it'd be like the Waco edition. It's not really that brilliant. It's not anything new. Well, okay, if I had to put something new, I would pitch toddler seats in bathrooms.

Butch Roussel  34:56  

Unbelievable. I mean, I'm a dad of three, about to be four, so I'm here for it. Go ahead, tell me more.

Tiffany Owens Reed  35:04  

Okay, does anyone understand the extent to which a toddler is like an escape artist? So you're out on your own as a mom, you're trying to get a coffee, you really got to go to the bathroom, and then you got to sit there and come up with tricks to keep them from crawling out of the stall. They exist. I would just want to get them into, like, every coffee shop, every restaurant. I just want them to exist everywhere. I just need to strap this little goober in so I can just have a minute without him crawling under every stall.

Butch Roussel  35:27  

Yes, yes. Just have a minute in the bathroom. What I tell my kids when we go in the bathroom, I'm like, "Put your hands by your side. Don't move them. Don't move them, don't touch anything." And then the four year old just ventures off and finds her way like climbing up a stall. And I'm like, "How did we get here?"

Tiffany Owens Reed  35:48  

It's just one part of the user experience of life that I just don't understand why no one has really thought through. Unless, of course, you're in Europe or something. They have them in Europe. They have all these things in Europe. Okay, my other idea. I've just gotten really frustrated because in my neighborhood, people have a really bad habit of parking right up to the edge of an intersection. It looks like a car stopping at a stop sign, but it's actually a parked car, and so it makes it really hard to see if any traffic is coming. Just really creates a visibility problem. I've started taking pictures of it, so I'm like, can we just have a citizen brigade to just go out and paint a couple of feet every intersection red and put a don't park sign? Maybe there's some friendlier way to go about it. But I'm really inspired by this concept of just solving our problems. But I'm like, I don't know, can I just have a bucket of paint? I don't know how long it would take me actually to go out there and do it.

Butch Roussel  36:41  

Yeah. Now, the thing about the parklet story, to that point, is that we built the parklet in our downtown. Now, if you come to our downtown, we have parklets all around. So maybe the big idea is "We need parklets in our downtown," but the smaller idea is that "If you just build one and not ask for permission to do it, then all of a sudden you're creating the momentum that you need to solve the bigger thing."

Tiffany Owens Reed  36:56  

It's just more like, I would like to not get hit at this intersection. I literally had to ask a neighbor recently to move his truck because I couldn't see. I saw them in the front yard, and I just went over and talked to them. I was like, "Whose truck is this? Could  you please move it? We can't see and it could cause an accident." And they were like, "Oh my gosh." They had completely not even thought of it. And they moved it.

Butch Roussel  37:42  

It sounds like, you handled that well, Tiffany.

Tiffany Owens Reed  37:42  

Yeah, I was proud of myself. I feel like it's one of those moments where we could just be mad at them and be judgmental. And then I was like, actually, we can speak to each other. We're human beings. And it was a very good exercise for me, and a good reminder. I think maybe there's a parallel between how citizens can feel about their city, just being like mad and frustrated that the city's not doing enough, and then you realize, oh, I actually could do something about this myself. And I think it's similar on a person-to-person level. You see the person causing this problem, and you just get frustrated, and then you totally forget that there's a thing called conversation and courtesy, and you can just go up and talk to them and say, "Hey, I noticed your truck is blocking.  Would you mind just parking it somewhere else?" And, hey, problem solved. So it's a good reminder for me.

Butch Roussel  38:29  

Yeah. I'm calling you next week and we're gonna see if you've done anything about it.

Tiffany Owens Reed  38:34  

Well, to all of our listeners listening to this, by the time this podcast runs, I will probably be taking care of my second child. So do not call me. I will not be lugging a newborn around town with a bucket of paint to try to prevent illegal parking.

Butch Roussel  38:50  

All right, I'll give you an extra week then.

Tiffany Owens Reed  38:53  

Okay, I'll take it. Butch, thank you so much for coming on the show. This was a lot of fun, and what you're doing is really inspiring and a good reminder that, isn't this a quote? "You can be the change you want to see in the world."

Butch Roussel  39:06  

Yeah, that's it.

Tiffany Owens Reed  39:08  

I don't know who said it. I'm sure it was president or someone influential and great. To our audience, thank you so much for joining us for another conversation. I will be back soon with another episode. In the meantime, don't forget to let us know about someone in your town who you'd like to nominate to be on the show. That's how we find out about so many of our guests, and you can do that using the suggested guest form in our show notes. And also, don't forget, friends, to keep doing what you can to build a strong town.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  39:41  

This episode was produced by Strong Towns, a nonprofit movement for building financially resilient communities. If what you heard today matters to you, deepen your connection by becoming a Strong Towns member at strongtowns.org/membership.