Norm Van Eeden Petersman  0:06  

Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Bottom-Up Revolution. I'm Norm with Strong Towns, and I'm chipping in as a guest host today. I'm excited to introduce you to someone that I've had the privilege of learning from many times. Today I'm joined by Donna Boelen, who recently wrapped up her time as a council member in Bloomington, Illinois. Donna served the Second Ward on the Bloomington city council from 2019 until the end of 2024. Donna strikes me as someone who is clear eyed about the challenges of serving in local government, but also understands the various rewards that come from serving the community well. Even as she left the council table, she was insistent that places thrive through the combination of a wide range of voices and fresh ideas weighing in on what we need to do to address the challenges in our community. That perspective really captures something we often talk about in the Strong Towns context, that there is a need for a constant renewal of leadership at the local level, and the role that we can all play in being strong citizens of our community, people who don't approach our communities passively waiting for others to do something, but instead approach our communities as co-owners, doing the little things bit by bit to really begin to see progress begin to emerge in our communities. Donna is a regular at our Ask Strong Towns Anything sessions, where I've often leaned on Donna to help untangle some of the tough questions that members bring up. I love that she's got a knack for connecting theory to practice, because she's lived it. One other thing that I really admire about her story is how she approached even campaigning for office differently. She didn't lean on the traditional endorsements from labor unions or other gatekeepers. Instead, she ran as an independent-minded but locally focused candidate, and she won. That kind of plucky upstart energy is exactly what we mean when we say this movement is built from the bottom up. As one reporter summed up her time on council, quote, "she often focused on budgetary and financial planning issues during her tenure." That sounds like a Strong Towns advocate who is taking a front row seat in the bottom up revolution to me. Donna, I'm so glad you're joining me today for this.

Donna Boelen  2:20  

Thank you very much for having me here. Actually, I'm an introvert, so I don't speak a lot, but I hope I do make an impression when I do.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  2:35  

Absolutely. I love that. To get us started, can you describe some of the prior experiences that led you to decide that you wanted and needed to seek a seat on council?

Donna Boelen  2:45  

Well, when I actually started, there was an issue in my neighborhood -- as a matter of fact, it was right behind my house. It was related to the storm water, and I was concerned about flooding and erosion. There are small children in the neighborhood, so the water was not draining and there was a real concern that if a ball or something went into that area and a small child chased it, there was a good possibility that they could fall into the drainage ditch and maybe not be able to get out. The drainage ditch was owned by the city, so that's where I went, to the city. I began to speak at public comment and specifically also to the board representative. I got angry. I got emotional. It was very difficult for me to speak at public comment, but I thought that it needed to be done to represent my neighborhood, not the entire city. Eventually, it was fixed, which I'm very happy about. But in the process, I got to know the staff, I got to interact with the council members. I had no intention of running. Again, as I was trying to get this fixed, which took total of four years, I began to fall down the rabbit hole, so to speak, looking for the arguments I could present for my case. Zoning code, developer requirements, standard of practice, I began to read it all. So then, when I went to the council meetings, I would start quoting. "This is what you're supposed to be doing. Why aren't you doing it?" So I was the squeaky wheel, but the people on the council took notice because, when I came to speak, I was prepared with the facts. I didn't go up there and blame them for anything. I didn't go up there and holler at them or embarrass them. I would just go up there and say, "This is your responsibility. This is what the code says. Please hold these people accountable and enforce the code. Or get rid of it, why have it?" I was honest, straightforward, and had facts to back me up. So that's how I got started. And then the council member that had represented Ward two decided not to run again after serving on the planning commission for, I think, six years, and then on the council for at least four if not six years. He had served long enough and was going to move on. So it was like, "Well, I've been standing at public comment for five or six years. Maybe I should step forward and take his place." And that's what I decided to do.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  6:09  

I'm fascinated by that, and we'll touch more on the process of running for office and that. Before that, you describe being, in many respects, self taught. In the work of advocacy and what we talk about at Strong Towns of taking notice of the small things and then asking what is the next smallest thing that we can do to address that struggle, one of the barriers that many people will experience is "Well, I don't know enough." How did you grapple with that? Like you said, you came to council with the facts, or you took the time to read those materials. But sometimes there's this presumption, if you're self-taught, it's somehow less than if you're others-taught. Can you describe that process of diving in and picking up that info that you could feel qualified to speak to it? And I'm sure when you meet others that were self-taught on these issues, you said, "I need to equally value what this person is saying compared to the expert that comes with the consultant's background or things like that." Can you describe some of those dynamics for your own experience, and then what you saw in others?

Donna Boelen  7:12  

Well, I have to say that Bloomington Illinois staff and the city itself is very transparent. Anything you need to know about the city can be found on the website if you have the time and know how to maneuver. Basically, that's what I did. I would type in the search engine a few words and then a whole list of articles would pop up. That's how I ended up down the rabbit hole, because I would start looking for what I was specifically trying to find the answer to, but then I would fall into something else. Then it's like, "Oh, I need to research that, because I think that's very important." For an example, the standard of practice which is applied for subdivisions. The standard of practice for how wide a neighborhood road is supposed to be. Why is it cracking? Well, it has to do with the underlayment. What exactly is this storm water system? Where the neighborhoods, at least suburban neighborhoods, have the retention and detention basins in order to keep a lot of the storm water that's created from cement that covers the ground from getting into the sewers and overloading the sewers downstream. So I was learning all this in the process of trying to get my problem solved in my neighborhood. Then I was introduced to Strong Towns, and at the same time came across a consultant's report that basically talked about fiscal impact. Everybody talks about, "Oh, the shiny new thing will provide all this economic impact," but never talks about the long-term fiscal impact. This report spoke about the long-term fiscal impact of infrastructure. And it was infrastructure that was behind my house. So I went down that rabbit hole, and then I tried to get information from staff about the cost of replacing a road. All those questions I started asking, and they either didn't want to or couldn't give the answer because they didn't really know. They do not consider it an asset, rather than a liability, which it really is. I started reading those comprehensive financial reports that came out every year. I got a lot of information out of that too, but I didn't quite understand the importance. And I looked at them annually, but I didn't go back and compare. So, yeah, I would try to quote those. Also, when it was tax time or budget time, I would try to go and do that. Then the city, during budget time, told the community, "We have a $7 million budget deficit," and I start asking the why question. A lot of it really had to do with infrastructure maintenance, the mistake of going into debt to purchase the shiny things, to invest in the shiny things, like the Coliseum, it's a sports venue. Also the bcpa, which I'm glad we have, you know.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  11:41  

Yeah, you get to enjoy them.

Donna Boelen  11:44  

Yeah, it's great to have this quality of life stuff. But my thought was, "Well, raising taxes kind of takes away quality of life for those that cannot afford." Where quality of life for them is milk on the dinner table. To get outside investments, I used a very simple metaphor that having your streets fixed and not have potholes is like curb appeal. You want to have somebody come in. I mean, it's literally curb appeal, when you want to sell your community. That's the kind of comments I would make at public comment. Not complain about all the potholes, but try to turn it around and say, "We need to have more investment here in order to support these quality of life and all this, so how about if we spend some of that money on infrastructure as a curb appeal thing?" When we talked about failing infrastructure underground, I would say "This is the 21st Century, and it appears to me that our underground infrastructure is more medieval." Because some of it was like 100 years old clay pipes. So I tried to make light of it but also get the point across in as few terms as possible. You only have three minutes, so, you have to get to the point.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  13:24  

I am reminded of a thing that I learned about the community of Selkirk, Manitoba, where their city manager makes a point of saying, "We need to paint yellow all of the areas where people aren't allowed to park near the turn radiuses." So there's always a section, and it's always yellow paint so people know that they can't park there. We drove through the community this summer, and it was very evident that it is clean, you know, and yellow paint everywhere. But Dwayne's point was to use that as an indicator. "If we're not able to send out a person with a paintbrush to paint those curbs, that is my first warning sign that we've started to actually misplace our priorities." It wasn't about the paint, it was about the indicator that something else has actually started to sag or drain our capacity to cover core costs, and the reason why we can't do these things is because we've begun to really sabotage our ability to do many things. I thought of that in the description that you're offering of what we are committing ourselves to in the long term, and do we have these patterns in our community that serve as warning signs that, yes, we may want to have something really nice, but if that comes at the expense of not being able to do those core services -- like you said, a curb that isn't broken and a street that works for people -- there's a big contrast there. One of the things that the reporter mentioned that your focus was on financial sustainability and financial planning issues. Can you describe some of that leading into the way that you positioned yourself to campaign for a seat in your community?

Donna Boelen  15:00  

A lot of it has to do with reviewing those comprehensive financial reports and and really trying to understand. In my own life, I'm very fiscally conservative, I try to pay cash rather than go into debt and that kind of thing. When the city manager announced that we had a $7 million structural deficit, a Budget Task Force was set up. They were asking, "What can we cut? How can we take care of this?" It was really serious, and they did end up raising taxes significantly. But a group of us, under the under the request of one of the council members, got together and met, I think it was weekly, if not every other week, just combing through the budget, every line item, and even some of those annual reports. We were trying to figure out where the money is being spent, trying to focus on what I call the basic services. We even presented to the council what we thought would be a reasonable solution. We were dismissed in favor of the official Task Force. But we learned something from that. And one of the people in that group introduced me to Strong Towns, and that's where, in my mind, the aha moment was. Now I can't unsee a lot of these things. Even recently, when I'm driving around, I see all these slip lanes, and I'm like, "There's no reason for a slip lane at this intersection. Why are we creating a hazardous set of circumstances?"

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  17:11  

And there's a corresponding financial cost to that extra asphalt, that extra curbing, that extra infrastructure that actually is at cross purposes with what we wanted to see. I've laid it out in presentations before. If there were better health outcomes, if there were better social outcomes, if the community was well served but it just happened to be financially poor, we might consider it. Actually, we're even missing those key elements of like quality of life, the assurance that you feel dignified in the place that you walk in or live in. We should see all of those indicators improving, or else we have to reexamine the pattern that we're following. I'm curious, what happened with the drainage system behind you? Did it ever get addressed? Or was is it still a challenge for your community?

Donna Boelen  17:59  

No, it did get addressed. But like I said, it took four years. I actually even got the state health department after them. I don't know if you have mosquitoes in your area. We have West Nile disease. So there were four cases of West Nile in the area that I represented. And of course, right behind my house, I have this giant pond breathing mosquitos. So yeah, I called in the health department about that. I think that put some pressure on the city. But again, they had to come up with money, and they had to fit it into their work schedule. But eventually, it got fixed, and now it's owned by the city, they mow it, not as regularly as I would like, but at least it doesn't turn into two foot tall weeds.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  19:13  

Describe running for office. That sounds intimidating. It sounds like a challenge, particularly you mentioned, being an introvert. The prospect of facing a room of people and saying, not just vote for me, but can you chip in a little bit of money for a campaign, or for signs, or whatever that is. All of that would be daunting and yet necessary as part of that process to to be elected. My perception is you had already built up ties. There was all the preceding work that then led to the campaign. Do you want to describe that?

Donna Boelen  19:44  

Well, that is true because I was called "the regular," as far as coming to the podium, so my face was familiar to the community. It was broadcast on YouTube. So, yeah, people knew who I was. The hardest was the first knock on the door, because you just never know. You never know if somebody is going to come out and say, "Stay away. I don't want to talk to you," or be mean. You just don't know. So the first person, yeah, they listened to what I had to say. I actually was coached by the my predecessor, which I thought was really great. He had confidence in me, so that then gave me some confidence. That goes back to me speaking at the council being prepared. He would say, "Go out and just tell them that you're familiar and show your confidence." So I did that, and he gave me a really good piece of advice. When you go there, have something in your hand with your name on it, and maybe a phrase or two of what you represent, and hand it to them. If you have a picture, that's better, but I didn't want to spend all that money when I was just collecting signatures. So that's what I did, and I didn't use Strong Towns or anything. I didn't want a catchy phrase. I said, "I want to make our community stronger and fiscally sustainable." So that's all that was on the card. My name, city council, ward two, and those two phrases. They would look at it and then go, "Well, how are you going to do that?" And I'm like, "Well, I can't guarantee anything. I'm one of nine, but you can count on me to do my homework, be thoughtful in my decisions, and listen." So that was basically it. People would ask, "Well, are you a Democrat or Republican?" I was like, "Well, technically, it's nonpartisan, because we don't decide social issues. We decide practical things like garbage and streets and stores. So my personal opinion really is not going to come into play." I did my best, when I was at the dias, to keep those things at the door.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  22:41  

Right, yeah. And I love that, because that's consistent with what Strong Towns is seeking to do. To make these things just normal, commonplace. It isn't that, Strong Towns, big S, big T, has to be slapped on everything. Instead, it's that there's a general approach, and that approach yields different types of outcomes than we're currently seeing. That's the part that we want to popularize, to make known, and to drive that shift in the way that people perceive these things. Over time, I even just smile that the reporter says you've got a reputation for focusing on these things, almost as if it's like one of many things to just be considering. And it's really important to ask those questions in the context of, we are in an infinite game. Our community has to endure and when we run out of resources, it doesn't help anyone. It's like setting out on the Oregon Trail and saying, "Do we have enough, not just for today and tomorrow, but to get there and then to be able to set up a thriving community where we want to be as well?" Only without the travel or the dying of dysentery. But that work of creating and sustaining a community really stands out. You've stepped back from Council responsibilities, but is there a highlight for you from the five years on council that stands out? You've certainly picked up so many lessons and valuable things to pass on to others, but what's some of the things that you're especially excited about or satisfied with?

Donna Boelen  24:10  

The most rewarding for me was interacting with the constituents, where they would call you and they had an issue and you could solve it or answer their question. And then, of course, some of them would holler at you, but if you solve their problem, they were very thankful. So when I did step down, there were a lot of emails and comments on Facebook about how I was going to be missed and all that, which really made me feel good. Nobody said that while I was on council. You only hear the negative, but that was the best. When people ask me that question, even when I was on council, I would always say, I didn't accomplish anything. There's nine people, and it has to be a team effort. When I was on council, I guess the thing I'm most proud of is working really hard to herd the cats, to get consensus. I really strongly believe that when there is consensus, and everybody can walk away from the discussion with a sense of win-win, that is the best decision. When there's contention, and it's like five-four and half the people go, "I won," and the other half people feel that they lost, you have to wonder if that is really the best decision when the entire community is not really being represented. I think that's the thing I'm most proud of. Not an individual thing, because, yeah, I voted in favor of improving sewers and streets and making sure that the police and fire were funded. That's that's not shiny or fancy, but I am proud of working on consensus for things that might have been considered controversial.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  25:50  

Yeah. And there aren't the same number of ribbon cuttings for those types of things, and yet, they're actually of greater consequence over the longer term, for our communities. I think there's so much value as well in saying that, if there's consensus, that's the bringing down of the temperature in the room. That's the creating space for people that then say, "Okay, what's next? What's that next thing that we can begin to do to address how people are struggling?" You've had some now ongoing opportunities to connect with and engage with the local conversation in Bloomington, Strong Blono, and one of the things that has been fascinating to me is your ability to, on the one hand, express deep appreciation for what they're trying to do, the work of other local advocates in the community, and then also saying, "At times there are certain system processes that should be respected or followed." How do I phrase this. There was points where there can be exuberance without necessarily some of the elements that go into a successful next step, missing some of those steps along the way. Do you want to describe that in your own charitable way?

Donna Boelen  27:43  

I was invited to attend the first few meetings, and I was very happy to do that. But when you're on a council, there are so many meetings, so you have to decide which ones you're really going to attend. That didn't stop me from following their Facebook page and that type of thing. In one of the first meetings, during the discussion, I recommended that they collaborate with the other organizations that were trying to improve the community. There was a very active bicycle community here, so I recommended they reach out to them. I had been interacting with the public transportation group, trying to improve it, because they had taken service out of my ward, so I was fighting to get it returned. So again, I was like, "Coordinate with them, talk to them." That's really the way you get things done. Don't try to do things without discussing it with staff or the council. They're the ones with the ultimate decision. I was so glad when you guys put out the "Don't be a Jerk" thing that all the Local Conversations have to sign, because it does keep people on track. Don't go to council and shame people. Don't make them feel bad. Don't take credit for what someone else does. Don't necessarily put things out in the public realm, on Facebook, without first notifying the council or the city manager, because they're the ones that the media is going to come to and ask questions. So it's just a matter of being considerate to the community at large. That's what I did. I didn't tell them what to do. I thought they were doing a lot of good things. But if there are ordinances in place or if there's a liability issue, they need to take that into consideration, and they would find that out if they talked and collaborated with the people that they would affect.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  30:24  

Yeah, there's a lot of good advice packed into that. One of the things that I've appreciated, Donna, is how, in Ask Strong Towns Anything sessions, people have said, like, "How to I get in touch with my council members?" Or "They don't seem to want to return my calls or my emails," and you've said "I responded to everything that was sent to me." Whenever people in good faith are reaching out, making time for that. I think, just as you described some of the ways that community advocates can certainly step up,  one of the other elements is council members within the strong towns ecosystem. If you're listening to this as a Strong Towns member and you are on a council or a commission, you can actually play a proactive role in making yourself available and being able to do things like information sharing. Donna, you shared that when you knew that key decisions were coming up for consideration by council, you made sure that info was in the hands of people who could come and speak to it, or address it, or maybe be critical of it but in a way that would be constructive. I know that my own group, we've benefited from council members that have shared things proactively and said, "Hey, I want this to be on your radar." I love that mutuality of it, of making sure that it goes both ways in that context. We've run different sessions on helping people who are considering a run for office, especially those that feel like they don't fit the mold or they've not been groomed to get to a certain point by a labor union or by a political party or by the Chamber of Commerce. In that context, do you have any suggestions for those who want to consider a run for office?

Donna Boelen  32:00  

I think that the first thing they should do is homework. Become familiar with how the city runs. Become familiar with the budget. At least go to meetings or watch them on YouTube, and I'm talking about historically, not just starting the day, you decide and going forward. Go back and look at some of the history. If there is someone in the community or on the council that might be in your corner, use them as mentors or confidence builders, let's put it that way. Be very clear in your convictions. Basically, what is your focus? My focus has always been, if you don't have the money, you can't do what you need to do. So it was always fiscal, financial. And transparency, that's very important too. Then you just gotta go and start knocking on doors. Be prepared for negativity. Try to develop a thick skin. I never asked for money, but when I did knock on a door or speak at these public forums, I don't want to say people just came up to me and threw money at me, they didn't, but there were people that, when they heard what I had to say, would give me money. I was very careful about how it was spent. You need these yard signs. Well, I wasn't about to spend for 100 yard signs. It was like, "No, I'll put two or three in each neighborhood" and that would be enough. And I didn't want to spend a lot of money on mailers. People throw them in the in the garbage. So somebody gave me a piece of advice. Spend your money on a good pair of walking shoes, like gym shoes. The people that are going to vote for you is not the Chamber of Commerce. Spend your time knocking on doors and talking to the people. The first time around, when I was collecting signatures, I only needed like 100 signatures, and there's 8000 residents in my ward. I knocked on 500 doors and handed out those 500 little cards, and then I went around after I got on the ballot and knocked on 500 more doors. I had a list of who I knocked on, and I went and knocked on 500 more. So there I had 1000 people that I had interacted with before the election. Then I was recommended, two weeks or so before the election, to do that again and ask for their vote. First time I didn't ask for their vote, but before the election, you have to go and ask for their vote. And if they weren't home, write on the mailer that you would have sent, "Sorry I missed you, please vote for me" and leave it between their door, or somehow leave it for them to show "I care about you." I mean, this sounds like manipulation, but if they were there, I would have said the same thing. It's not that you don't want to have support from the business community, but if the business community hears me say, "fiscal," "financial," they're going to support me one way or another, and they don't have to necessarily give me money. They can talk to the people that live in my ward and say, "Hey, we support her." Then right before the election, people like the Chamber of Commerce or the police and fire union or even a union that I didn't court might come out and say, "Hey, she supports the police and fire. We need to support her." And then they do. So even if it's not with money, the word of mouth and speaking to people, I think, is much better. Then I don't owe them anything. I never asked them for anything. I don't owe them anything. So when I make my vote, the vote is for the benefit of the entire community, not for the union or group that supported me.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  37:22  

Then you develop a reputation where you won't be that squishy person that can be sought out to try to do a side deal or anything like that. You get to sidestep a lot of the things that dog local politicians or the controversies that emerge. As we come close to wrapping up, one of the things I was thinking about is how, as Strong Towns advocates, we find that we love our places even if we fear for the place that we live as well, in terms of what its longer term prospects look like or things like this. So why don't we close with, what is it that you love about Bloomington? And maybe, if I come as a visitor to Bloomington, what are some of the things that you're pretty confident I will love about your community as well?

Donna Boelen  38:02  

Well, first of all, it's centered right in the middle of Illinois. Two hour drive to Chicago, two and a half to St Louis, two and a half to Indianapolis. But you don't have to worry about any of that traffic in those big cities. So if you want to go to some kind of fancy restaurant, stay in a fancy hotel, go to the live theater, you can do that. There's the Amtrak train that goes to downtown Chicago. So, it's very accessible for a lot of that. It's a college town, so it has a very young, vibrant vibe. Lifelong learning. I can take classes at a community college and learn a second language, if I want, that type of thing. It's got a small town feel, but has has many amenities, primarily surrounding the universities. What else? Well, I'm a mom, so I'm going to speak as a mom. I raised my children here. It's a great place to raise children, and as a mom, where you raise your children, you're going to love. I've also noticed that a lot of people who go away after college end up coming back here. They do say, "Well, yeah, I was raised here, and of course, couldn't wait to get out," but then they come back here to raise their children.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  39:54  

Yeah, I've shared that in presentations too. Many college communities in particular ought to aspire to be places that people realize they want to return to. It doesn't have to be immediate. The exodus can, at times, feel almost existential. "Why are people leaving?" Well, maybe because they found other work, or they're doing a post grad degree, or whatever that looks like. But the reality is, you can also do many things right now that create the conditions where people are desirous to return. Donna, you are a gift and a benefit to Bloomington, to our Strong Towns movement as well. I'm grateful for the time that we could spend together to talk through this. I said at the outset that I could do a Bottom-Up Short about this, but we wouldn't be able to fit even a portion of what we covered today in just 10 to 15 minutes. So thank you for devoting this time together to be able to talk through, as a member of the Strong Towns movement, what it looks like to take up your seat at a city council table, as well as doing the work ahead of time to understand the needs in your community and to press for them to be addressed in the way that was responsible but also contributed to the quality of life for you and certainly for generations to come. Donna, thank you so much for being on The Bottom-Up Revolution.

Donna Boelen  41:08  

Thank you for having me. I enjoyed it.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  41:10  

Loved it as well. So folks, if you are listening to this, I just want to highlight that throughout the fall, we are running Local-Motive sessions, which are opportunities to hear from individuals much like Donna or others that are doing things in their community that we want to bring to your attention. Definitely go and check that out on our Strong Towns site. If there's anything more that you would like to hear when Tiffany's back in the seat, share guest recommendations. Share the types of things that inspire you as you do the small things in your community, taking action and taking notice of the many things that we can do together with people as we build coalitions and we build a movement for change. With that, thanks for listening to The Bottom-Up Revolution. Have a great day, folks.

Norm Van Eeden Petersman  41:59  

This episode was produced by Strong Towns, a nonprofit movement for building financially resilient communities. If what you heard today matters to you, deepen your connection by becoming a Strong Towns member at strongtowns.org/membership.