Why Data Center Electricity Use "Scares Me to the Bone"

Data centers power everything from cloud computing to artificial intelligence, and they use a massive amount of electricity to do it, sometimes even rivaling major cities. Watchdogs claim that tech companies aren’t absorbing the costs of this electricity use, causing rate payers’ electricity bills to spike as they’re forced to subsidize these data centers. Today, Edward and Abby discuss the far-reaching implications of this kind of land use.

• Click here for the transcript. (Lightly edited for readability.)

  Abby Newsham 0:04

  This is Abby, and you are listening to upzoned.

  Abby Newsham 0:18

  Hey everyone, thanks for listening to another episode of upzoned, the show where we take a big story from the news each week that touches the strong towns conversation, and we upzone it. We talk about it in depth. My name is Abby Newsham. I'm a planner in Kansas City, and today I am joined by my friend Edward Erfurt, who's the Chief Technical Advisor at strong towns. Welcome Edward.

  Edward Erfurt 0:42

  Abby, it's always great to join you on upzoned.

  Abby Newsham 0:44

  I'm so glad that you could join me. This week, we are going to be talking about a topic that I don't think I've covered before on upzoned, but it's certainly, I think, a topic that's rising in significance. So the article is entitled, "as electric bills rise, evidence mounts that data centers share blame. States feel pressure to act." So this is an article that was published in AP News and addresses the fact that electric bills are climbing across the US, and brings up this issue that states are starting to point the finger at data centers. So these facilities are growing in, you know, relevance, especially over the past probably five years. They power everything from cloud computing to artificial intelligence, and in some places, they can utilize a pretty large scale of electricity, sometimes even at the scale that rivals major cities in some regions. Watchdogs are saying that data centers are responsible for the majority of recent cost spikes that consumers are experiencing on their electricity bill, and these are costs that aren't necessarily being absorbed by the tech companies. They're kind of touching everyday residents and local businesses. Lawmakers in Oregon and New Jersey and Pennsylvania are now scrambling to design special rates or new regulations that make sure rate payers aren't subsidizing data centers, but with this upside of jobs and investment and broad public access to new technology on the table, it's not clear whether states are willing to follow through on shifting the full cost to the data centers, which may mean that the general public absorbs this cost In the long run. So Edward, you mentioned offline that this is really a growing controversy in a land use world, and I'm curious about what some of your initial thoughts on this topic are.

  Edward Erfurt 2:53

  Yeah, I am in the epicenter of the data center debate. I'm in the eastern panhandle, West Virginia. I'm side that Loudon, Fairfax County corridor, where these have all emerged. If people were to go to Google Maps, and they were to look at where the Dulles Airport is, you could start to go away from the airport, and you can begin to see the industrial stuff you would expect around an airport, and then, because of the demand of housing, you can begin to see the housing development occur. What we've seen over the last couple years here is everywhere there's been a hole in between those housing developments. Everywhere there's something along a corridor these data centers have emerged, and they're prolific in this area. I didn't know why. I thought it was because we were Washington, DC, and this is where, like, all of that stuff would be. And in fact, it was that this area of the country has -- or had -- a lot of electrical capacity. We have power plants that have been built, so there is lots of electric capacity. So what I'm learning from these data centers is that they come in and they are a new zoning category. So where do they kind of go? They're not a warehouse, they're not a factory. They don't have the traffic to them, but they do consume a lot of water, and they consume an enormous amount of electricity, and then they have generators and such, so they can create noise and all those pieces. So it has become a giant debate where I'm at in the country, and I'm starting to hear more of that as we're talking to our local conversations and during ask strong towns anything, more and more members are asking questions about these data centers, because they're coming in as these new economic development projects. They can go in brownfields. They can go in places that maybe you don't have the transportation system. But there are some real drawbacks that are emerging. And I think the power one in this article helps me to understand this a little bit more. So I don't know Abby on this. I'm seeing kind of two things that come out of this that are really worth talking through. One of them is the zoning. How do you zone these? This is like an alien thing coming to a community. It doesn't fit one of our fancy letter zoning categories. It's such an emerging thing we don't know what to protect against. And then there's this other thing with utilities, the fragility of our utilities. The amount of energy, the amount of water that one of these centers needs -- they all cluster together so that they need like 100 times that of a suburban subdivision. So, how do you deal with that in these suburban edge condition areas?

  Abby Newsham 6:10

  Yeah, it's really pretty fascinating when you think about kind of the cost of use for these types of land uses, because when we look at a subdivision, it's more of a physical cost of use in terms of the inefficiencies. We can see the large lots and how much infrastructure, streets, pipes, that that it requires to make up. And we can kind of look at the costs that that are associated with that development pattern. This is a development pattern where the inefficiencies are not rooted in the physical sprawl of infrastructure per se, it's more so the cost of electricity, which is kind of hidden in a lot of ways. And right now, the model is really set up at a way that that kind of socializes that cost amongst all rate payers, which is something that I didn't realize before, and it makes you think, what are the repercussions of that? I do have a lot of questions also about land use implications. You know, I've worked in places where data centers are being implemented in pretty urbanized conditions, in addition to greenfield development. So it seems like data centers are this new, emerging land use type. They really can be inserted into, like older buildings, in some cases, like large warehouses that used to be used for something else, and I've seen that happen. But you also see, kind of these large industrial expanses, kind of on the outskirts of town, and I'm curious what you're hearing from some of the conversations amongst strong towns members.

  Edward Erfurt 8:08

  Yeah, well, there are various concerns that are being raised. Most of these are coming in as economic development projects, and as soon as we hear economic development, for many of us, that experience has been "let's subsidize for a promise of the future that never pans out." What's really interesting with these data centers is that, as a municipality, it's something that's going to come into your community that you only really have to have fire and EMS attend the building once. There's nobody in it, so other than the construction, you don't have any people driving on your streets, so you don't have any rush hour traffic. These data centers have all different types of level of security, and they have all these types of fire suppression areas. I would liken them to the 22nd century version of self storage. I mean, this is where all of our iPhone photos are at. This is where all of our Word documents in the cloud are being stored. This is where our credit card data is moving forward. And then there's like this virtual manufacturing, all of that stuff that we have in the world, that we're getting for free, the free Gmail and Yahoo accounts are being funneled through here, and AI is scrubbing that and figuring out what next thing to feed to us. So all of this is kind of occurring there. When they come to town, they get built. The fire department goes in once to see where things are in the building. But the fire suppression and all of this stuff, because the data is so valuable, there's nothing really that would burn here. There's nobody in the building that's going to have a heart attack, so it's not a strain on your services in that regard, and all the things that we would think through development. Then when you look at the money that's put into this, not only do you have the building, but all of that equipment in the building. These are giant cash cows for many of our communities when it comes to the land value that's being created from it. So if you're being funded through property tax, they generate a lot of property tax. If you are charging for equipment on a site, and you evaluate to that, there's a huge tax benefit off of it. So imagine, as a city or county. One of these centers come in and tells you, "we're going to develop a large area or redevelop a site, and you don't have any responsibility. You don't have any liabilities, really, as a municipality. And by the way, we're going to pay you lots and lots of money in taxes." This is what's really interesting with it. If they get put in a place that works, that doesn't disrupt the neighbors, and you've kind of followed through those things, what this article starts to point out is the things you don't see, the things you and I would just get as a letter in a development review application. When we come to the utility company, the power company, other than a few jurisdictions around the country, that is a private entity that is obligated to provide a service to anybody that asks within a certain distance of their power lines. So as planners and development reviewers in City Hall, you get some sort of letter, and in the building permit process, the power company says, "Yes, we can provide service." It's part of your electrical inspection. When you build a building, those inspectors come out. And if you've done any rule development, you know, that if there's a power line on a road and you're within so many feet of that, the power company has to provide you power. In our planning decisions at City Hall, we would never look at electricity. We just assume it's going to be there. So this is something that it for me, it's showing the fragility of one of our core infrastructures that we all take for granted, almost as if the air around us is its equivalent. And what is really interesting is all of the things we've done for consumer protection so that we're not gouged with high electric bills. That works when we're incrementally adding on to the system. What's happening here is the gigawatts of consumption is working at a pace faster than we can build power plants, and it's requiring more expensive power, which our consumer protections are now working against us.

  Abby Newsham 13:18

  Yeah, and kind of drawing on the perspective of a planner who may be reviewing this as a development application. You're right. They're not necessarily looking into how that affects the rate structure of people around the data center.

  Edward Erfurt 13:38

  We're looking at trees and parking impacts. But like, "hey, let's look at the energy consumption of this, and we're going to talk about it in terms of 10 and 100 times any other use that you could imagine in your community." I've been hearing in the news other stories about how we have a fragile network, a fragile power grid in this country. Some of the latest AI investments in this country, some of the factory development. Like Apple announced their big investment of their data center, and it is going to have its own power plant as part of it. Could you imagine, Abby? Like, how would you permit a power plant in an urban location, not to mention the types of power that can be available? Like, I've heard the science of these little, tiny, compact nuclear facilities. I think they want to test some in different cities. Imagine that discussion showing up at a public meeting. "Hey, I'm a planner. I know lots about land use for residential, commercial, and by the way, here's our special application for this extra use, this variance for a nuclear reactor three blocks from your house."

  Abby Newsham 15:02

  Yeah, I have a feeling that wouldn't go over well. There's so much that I'm thinking about. Something that I did have on my mind is retail. As retail is becoming not as strong as an industry, a lot of retailers are closing. I wonder if some of those buildings may lend themselves to becoming data centers in certain instances, especially like old big box stores. That certainly would be controversial, to put a nuclear reactor inside one of those buildings to power the data center. That would really shift that use to probably being in the middle of nowhere, and that may have all its own implications.

  Edward Erfurt 15:49

  Imagine if we could even get a solar array big enough to stick that on the roof for the lot next door. Yeah. I mean, for me, this is so fascinating, because when we think about planning and zoning, as it's been set up the last eight decades, most of the operating system that you and I have experienced are things that were really developed in the first 20 years of Euclidean zoning. Like there have not been a lot of new emerging uses. There've been points where it's like, "oh, we need to adapt." Like, the drive in theater doesn't happen anymore or the rooming house, like those things that existed, maybe those are in our zoning code but are obsolete.

  Abby Newsham 16:42

  I see obsolete things in zoning codes all the time, you know, blacksmiths, just things that carried over from a long time ago.

  Edward Erfurt 16:52

  But how do you deal with this? And even in terms of of zoning, when we think about all of the noxious uses. I mean, the whole purpose of zoning is to separate the factory on the edge of town. Yeah, they're going to be generators that run and these sorts of things, but that we can kind of correlate, maybe with some of our industrial uses. But in my community right now, there is a huge battle with aerial power lines. So the big monster arrays, the things on the big 100 foot towers that shadow the countryside. This is happening. These are coming. This infrastructure is being put through our county to support essentially, data centers to extend on the grid. So yeah, for this facility, it's nice and neat around. Maybe we hear the generators go off, but the power that's servicing this is coming from a power facility many, many miles away, And there are rural, and even some suburban communities that are miles and miles away that are being impacted by this land use decision, and they're not in eyesight or tax capture or job creation of this at all.

  Abby Newsham 18:17

  So I wonder what the implications would be of shifting the cost to data centers, because you mentioned all these tools that we're using for free. You know, broadly, there's access to a lot of tools like Google, Gmail, but also like AI tools that have become more and more prevalent over the past year or two. And yes, we're quote, unquote, using them for free. But I do wonder if that changes the whole business model of technology and these sorts technological uses, if data centers were to take the whole cost of building their own generators and nuclear power plants, or paying more to the utility companies. I'm curious if you think that would actually impact what we experience as users of technology, if we would start needing to pay for certain uses.

  Edward Erfurt 19:26

  Well, on something like this, maybe there is a cost benefit -- or in the business model, stability in your product line -- if you're doing your own power generation. Power generation companies are showing that energy is something you can make money off of. So if you made enough for this, do you make enough to supply externally? So you could see that as a commodity that you're building. And that makes sense for these. But the centers that wanna lock into the existing grid. This is where I find this really interesting. It's hard to talk about electricity and all of the things with that, because not many people have dealt with those pieces or dealt with the power company and the Public Services Commission with that, or really understand all the protections we have so they're not big energy spikes or the 20 years it takes to permit a type of plant. But many of us have been in communities that have had a similar infrastructure shortfall when it comes to water and sewer, where your community grew so fast the water plant is over capacity, or because of decision making that occurred, the sewer plant is undersized for the community, and it's discharging raw sewage into the waterway. Cities are forced to institute growth moratoriums. In those systems, that's a struggle too. Like in a community, when you look at your utilities, we assume that the connection fee that we pay to connect to the pipeline, whatever the developer paid to extend the pipeline, whatever we pay every month, we assume that's going to cover all of the costs to maintain and upkeep that system. And there are countless stories of cities all across North America where they may not say they're insolvent, but they also are not fixing the pipes at the rate they need to fix them. If you were to go at a state level -- this story is coming out of Pennsylvania at a state level. If they were to do an analysis in a community and say, "Oh, we don't have enough capacity at our water treatment plant, we need to build an expansion to the plant. It's going to take us two years to do that, if we find the money to do it, and in that time, we can't issue any more permits to expand our community." If we think about the power grid at the state level, what happens when the state says, "Okay, we're out of power, we have to limit development"? It wouldn't just be limiting development on data centers. It would be limiting development on houses, which is a critical need, on retail, electric charging stations for cars and busses. I mean, this just shows how fragile our system is. And if we went to a lot of these communities and said, "Hey, you know all of that growth Ponzi you've started? You know how we're in musical chairs, and you continue to grow, and you've bonded out the expansion of your utility systems, and you build all these big roads for development? By the way, because we've issued permits for six data centers, we don't have the power for you, so you need to pause construction for five years." I mean, that the implications of this just scares me to the bone.

  Abby Newsham 23:19

  Wow. Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating. And you know, the the fact that, from the utility company side of things, energy companies are also expanding infrastructure to support these uses. And while there is kind of more of a direct cost that gets passed on to the utility users, it does make me think about how long-term maintenance of the system works. I mean, is deferred maintenance an issue for energy companies, or is this a situation where they they can correct by, you know, passing on cost to to users of the utilities? That would mean that not only is the use of electricity getting socialized among all users of of the electrical system, but how does that work with the the long term maintenance of all these new systems that are being established?

  Edward Erfurt 24:21

  And again, I'm going to go back to the utilities. None of us are going to advocate for our utility bills to go up. The example that I came across in the last two years is out in Norman, Oklahoma. Norman, Oklahoma, has a fascinating community for all different types of case studies. In Norman, Oklahoma, their water and sewer service is controlled by the city. But in Oklahoma, all their cities are huge, the way they do their city boundaries. So Norman is in the teens of the largest city by area in the country, but its urbanized area is only a small portion of the city. In the city, if they want to increase water and sewer rates, that has to go out for a public vote of the people. And the reason they did this really fundamentally, is a way to control growth. So if you are a resident in the rural part of the county, and you're on a well and septic, you get to vote on this because it's a public referendum. And if you don't want to see growth, and you don't want to see expansion, and you don't want to connect up to the public systems, you're going to vote no. If you're a rate payer, if you're paying this stuff and you're being asked, "Do you want to pay more for sewer?" No, I don't want to pay more. My budget's tight. I am not making enough money to cover what I currently have. A similar thing is happening with the consumer protections we have on utilities, and it's way more complicated because, while a sewer plant may be something localized to a city or to a county, a power plant is a multi-state piece that goes to the federal government. The nuances of all the different powers we have is a lot of specialties, and like we've seen with water and sewer in many of our cities, we've not expanded at the rate equivalent to our growth. We've also not reserved the money to upgrade all of our systems. So now, when we look at this, if we've not been growing like we need to in that fashion, if we've not planned for those components, then we're behind. And if we're behind year after year after year, if we've decided, as smart citizens, that we're gonna under 1% every year, that compounds. We are now at the point that two things are happening. We're behind on our maintenance and upgrade of the system, and we're at peak demand. So we have whatever we have to get up so that we are solvent today, and we have whatever we need to operate safely today, and then whatever that immediate growth we need. And yeah, this is why it's driving up these prices. And in a lot of this, the only way you can drive up price, with the way we set these systems for consumer protection, is by expanding the production of the energy, or the demand has reached that. And we've protected it so if you and I plug into the system, it's not a big charge. But this is now beginning to hurt us.

  Abby Newsham 28:18

  Right. You're not going to put Pandora back in the box, so to speak, in terms of the technology that's being used, unless it becomes completely unfeasible to utilize these tools that we have. But I think the more likely direction is that there's going to be more and more pressure put on data centers to find other ways to create energy to support this. And it does make me wonder if this is how we pivot to nuclear power and other types of power specifically to support data centers.

  Edward Erfurt 29:05

  Yeah. There are a lot of incremental developers working in the heart of our downtowns, and they want to build where house once existed, or where that empty lot is in a neighborhood. And they go to the city, and they get all the building permits, and then they go to the utility company. When they get to the utility company, they get hit with the zinger that there's no utility capacity, or they've got to upsize the pipe in the middle of the street and it doesn't matter what the cost is, other than the cost exceeds what they can actually afford to generate revenue to make a project feasible. What's happening here is the same thing at a larger scale. If we really need this to save all of our photos, to be the top of the technology, to take us wherever this is taking us in the world, we're going to have to start looking across the country for where we have that electrical capacity. So when I talk to cities, and they have these beautiful master plans to infill downtown, many times they don't talk to the utility company to figure out what capacity is in the downtown. What I suggest is they look at their sewer capacity, and maybe the areas where they have sewer capacity are not the places they are actually doing their master planning. And in fact, they should actually go where there's sewer capacity first. On this, just like where I'm at in Loudoun, Fairfax County, these are occurring here because this is where we have electrical capacity, and they're sucking it up. I don't know where else in the country we have that. And maybe in the short term, it's not about moratoriums, but actually directing people to where that is or where somebody could build their own power facility with the least amount of resistance, and that's where maybe we should be directing some of this in the short term.

  Abby Newsham 31:26

  Yeah, absolutely. I'm actually looking this up right now because I'm curious, and the the top regions that align with the capacity question is Northern Virginia, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Las Vegas, and Atlanta. So it sounds like those are the areas in the country that will probably see fast growth in this sector, but there's a number of other cities in this particular article that I've pulled up here that are listed. So I'm guessing that each of these regions will be needing to address the energy cost question in their own ways. They may come up with different solutions, but ultimately, when it comes to by-state needs to address the cost and the rates associated with infrastructure, I do wonder if this is something that really will move quickly enough to address this immersion technology and land use.

  Edward Erfurt 32:39

  Right now, I don't think it is the planners. I don't think the planners can solve this. I don't think laying a new color on your zoning map is going to solve this. I think where it's going to be -- and this is where the planners can help influence it -- is the public service commissions. It's going to the state level of figuring out how energy rates are set, the amount you pay. The states that have the ability to process the new energy plants are going to be the ones that will be more ready for this type of thing. And I'm telling you, these are the big shiny objects that every economic development office across the country wants because of all the tax base and the limited liability, the limited infrastructure requirements on the ground for a municipality. So it's kind of like, "Hey, these are big wins." The data that's happening in Phoenix is also duplicated in Loudoun County, like it's moving through. So it's not like proximity where you have to have the widget factory next to the widget trucking company. So the planners and the thinkers that get at how we go through this. I don't even know, like if one of these centers came online, could the state even accept a check, or the power company accept a check to do an expansion to a facility? Or would that be in violation of some of the laws that are laid out? That's the type of stuff I'd want to walk through and figure out. How could we deliver this need so quickly? Because it's going to be a really tough conversation with communities. We say, "oh, yeah, by the way, our great economic development projects that are occurring have capitalized and utilized all of our electrical capacity, and we're happy to have you build but we can't have you plug in." That's not something we can deal with at a local level. I mean, unless every city starts their own little power plant, and I just don't think we can do that at scale.

  Abby Newsham 35:11

  Right? Like are there other alternatives, even not just from the data center side, but from the city side to to address the need for energy? I feel like this is something that's a little over my head in terms of the specialization of how these things work, but I don't think that the issue is going away. And there's definitely this strong towns overlay discussion on it, even beyond the land use, just the hidden costs of our new technological advances and all these things that we're integrating into our daily life, and it's just something that I think is going to keep continue to be a challenge for for people.

  Edward Erfurt 36:11

  It really demonstrates on the energy consumption a giant leap. As somebody that's done design work, I could make a data center fit in somewhere and meet all the rules, because they're boxes and that. But the inputs to it that are external to our control as a municipality, such as power, is that unknown. There are lots of people opposed to data centers. There's lots of groups out there and they're coming forward for a whole host of reasons. What this story really points out is right now where I believe the Achilles heel is for data centers. And really looking at that piece, it should open our eyes that this type of fragility within our power grid is also reflective in our water and sewer systems and our roadway systems and our communities. There's probably lots of people listening to this that have never heard of a data center. They're never going to see it in their town. What I will tell you is this discussion is the same discussion that, at a local level, is happening with your water and sewer systems. Those are systems at a local level that you actually have control of, that you have the ability to make an impact on and help people think through it and try to get ahead of it. But yeah, this is a really big deal right now. There's a lot of emphasis at a federal level to get more of these data centers out. And what are we going to do if we can't get the electricity to them?

  Abby Newsham 38:06

  That's the elephant in the room, so to speak. Great. Well, let's leave it there. I look forward to hopefully talking about this again with you and and maybe bringing Chuck on. I'd be curious what his thoughts are as well. But yeah, let's leave it there and go to the downzone, which is the part of this show that we can share, anything that we've been up to these days, anything we've been reading, watching, listening to before we close out. So Edward, what is your downzone today?

  Edward Erfurt 38:39

  Well, we are at the end or kind of middle of August and Monday my boys go back to school.

  Abby Newsham 38:45

  Oh, yep, exciting.

  Edward Erfurt 38:47

  Yeah. So there is this mixed emotion in our house. My wife, Michelle, and I are ecstatic. We feel like we're coming up on our own personal spring break. Our boys think we're sending them off to some sort of torture school. The thing that's upsetting for me is every time I take the kids to school, they seem taller and older. And our son, Eddie, his voice is getting deeper. My son Tommy, our youngest, is getting taller and thinner. So they are growing up like weeds, but it's exciting for us. Next week we'll be getting them off to school, having to get up early, having to do all that sort of stuff. Because I work from home, it will be nice to have my six and a half hours where I can do recording and zoom calls and things without the surprises, without the boys wrestling in the background. And getting them back out in the world, socializing with folks. So, it's an exciting time for us.

  Abby Newsham 39:57

  Absolutely. I work with quite a few people who have kids, and it has opened my eyes to, you know, perspective on what the summers are to adults. You know, to kids, it's this fun time, you have free time, it's a big vacation. And to the adults, it is, you know, a new pattern, new dynamic in the house.

  Edward Erfurt 40:20

  When school starts, we now get an entire team of people to help keep our children active and engaged. So I welcome that now. It may be in three weeks from now, I complain that we're up late trying to figure out homework and building posters and all those things. It's the trade offs, and it's always fun to see when our boys, they complain about school in the beginning, but once they get into it, they really enjoy it, and they come home with all these great stories of what they're learning and what their friends are up to. So it's just neat every year at the dinner table, talking through what they've experienced or learned during the day. We've gone from colors and letters up to the Civil War and World War Two and crazy math computations and whatever is happening in the solar system. So it's for us, it's just fun seeing them mature year after year as they go through this.

  Abby Newsham 41:18

  And I'm sure it's pretty fun to revisit all these topics that maybe you haven't thought about in a really long time. I mean, I think back to the things that I learned growing up. And, yeah, it's probably really kind of a fun activity to hear about these, these topics.

  Edward Erfurt 41:35

  Well, and we share, like, you know, the whole Electric Company, all those old PBS songs and Conjunction Junction and all that. Our kids think we're crazy when we start to blurt out the things we learned as kids that have, you know, been the foundation of what we know as adults. And the kids, their eyes roll at this stuff. But I assure you, we sing these things to them, we show them these clips, and it now burns into their brain that they can never forget all the things that they need to learn in school.

  Abby Newsham 42:12

  I'm sure they will thank you later.

  Edward Erfurt 42:16

  I'm waiting for later, but I'll be patient.

  Abby Newsham 42:18

  Yeah, just be patient one day, one day when they're in their 30s, they'll say, "Man, Dad, thank you so much." Well, that's very cool. I've been traveling quite a bit just for work, and this weekend I have kind of an open weekend where I am going into the next phase of my grass killing spree. I've just been slowly but surely replacing the grass on my in my front and backyard with landscaping and just doing a lot of digging and a lot of paving and a lot of planting. So I'm I'm doing one section hopefully this weekend, just to kind of prepare for the fall and start to put some cardboard down and, you know, kill some of this grass. So I have a master plan. It's all in my head, and I'm implementing it one free weekend at a time.

  Edward Erfurt 43:19

  I love it when planners take on small projects, so I hope you share with us, at least on our internal channels.

  Abby Newsham 43:28

  Oh yeah, I should drop some pictures. I'll drop some pictures so that you guys can all see. My front yard used to be very ugly, and it's it's very different than it used to look. So it's just a matter of acquiring materials and that kind of thing. But yeah, I'll show you.

  Edward Erfurt 43:47

  Cool.

  Abby Newsham 43:48

  Awesome. Well, thanks again for joining me today, and thanks everyone for listening to another episode of upzoned. Thanks, Edward. Talk to you again soon.

  Edward Erfurt 43:58

  Great. Thanks. Abby.

  Abby Newsham 43:59

  Bye.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• “As electric bills rise, evidence mounts that data centers share blame. States feel pressure to act.” by Marc Levy, AP News (August 2025).

• Want to bring the conversation to your community? Book Edward as a speaker.

• Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

---

---

RELATED STORIES

---