A small house in the backyard can solve a housing problem that changes several times over the life of a family. It might first give an aging parent a place nearby, then become a home for an adult child, a rental, or eventually a place for the homeowners themselves. Bradley Jones, founder of Tiny Homes of Tucson, has seen that flexibility become one of the biggest reasons families decide to build ADUs. In central Tucson, many older homes sit on deep lots with little more than dirt, a cactus, and room to spare, which gives families a chance to turn unused backyard space into housing that can keep adapting as their needs change.
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Bottom Up Revolution podcast. I'm your host Tiffany Owens. One of the core messages of the Strong Towns movement is that people deserve and should have options.
We should have options for how we get around. We should have options for where we get our food. We should have options for the kinds of homes that we live in. Today's guest is in the work of providing housing options for older people who are interested or beginning the journey of aging in place.
Today's guest is Brad Jones. He's the founder of Tiny Homes of Tucson, an Arizona company specializing in site-built, casitas and accessory dwelling units. Brad came into the industry from a sales and business background, but his interest in smaller homes became personal as he began thinking about housing for his own family. We'll get more into that story in the show.
Since then, Tiny Homes of Tucson has grown into one of the most active ADU builders in Southern Arizona, and Brad is now taking what his team has learned and turning it into ADU Build Print, an operating system designed to help builders in other markets build successful ADU businesses. I'm super fascinated about this side of his work, and looking forward to learning more about that and sharing his experience and insights with you today. Brad, welcome to the Bottom Up Revolution podcast.
Thank you. Pleasure to be here. Honored, humbled, and looking forward to the conversation.
So we've had a chance to connect outside of this recording, and you have a very interesting story that I'm glad I get to share with our audience. You came into the tiny house scene, like I mentioned in our intro, from a background in business and sales. So I would love it if you could just tell the story about how that happened and what resonated with you about this whole concept of building tiny homes. Yeah, I had I had been in
Sales leadership, executive management for decades, and I was actually kind of exploring what was going to be my next opportunity. Really focusing probably on some type of sales leader or VP of sales role, and the concept of maybe starting my own business was presented to me, which I initially said no. That's that's kind of not my thing. I would not have said prior to that I was an entrepreneur by any stretch of the imagination.
But I was actually presented an opportunity to take a test, a couple of different quizzes to determine if I were going to do something like that, what areas would be of interest? so it came back in two areas.
It was home services and senior care. so I started looking at some businesses that would that could do both of those things. then I saw a presentation from a company who builds ADUs or accessory dwelling units, and they had built hundreds and hundreds of them in North Northern California, and had created what seemed to be a pretty good business model. so then I started exploring that, and I was very impressed by the process and the impact that it could have on the community. so, yeah, I kind of I was swept up in it pretty quickly, and within 60 days, I had I had made the leap, and we kicked off here in Southern Arizona, in Tucson back in 2024.
So I want to continue that story in a minute, but before we do, tell me. Can you tell more about the personal side to that? Like, what were you seeing in your life and in your family that gave this an element of personal resonance outside of just the business opportunity?
Yeah, absolutely. So my daughter, my oldest child, was just starting college, and we were looking at where she would potentially live, and you're looking at rents and dorms and things like that. At the same time, my parents had turned 80, and they were at an age where you certainly start to think about what's the next step for them. How long are they going to be able to live in their house?
Then, even exploring our own house, We were renting when we first moved to Tucson, but we were looking to buy a house. then you start thinking about, well, what do I need to prepare for from that perspective? I've got kids who are leaving. Do I have parents that are coming in? What type of flexibility does that require? we were starting to see that right in the market.
You've got a lot of, and especially in Southern Arizona, there's a lot of seniors here. People come to the warmer climates to retire? it's also a university town with the University of Arizona being kind of the hub of Tucson, and so you've got a lot of college students that are. Looking for housing, etc. So you also have rental income opportunities that come with that, and all of those things were kind of coming together in the place we were living, and it just resonated across a lot of different areas.
That's really interesting that Tucson has both seniors and college students. That I think those are two demographics that probably need variety, choice, and flexibility the most, especially when it comes to housing.
Yes, no doubt. I think the other thing that people start to realize is, from a housing perspective, everybody doesn't need a 2000, 3000 square-foot house? it's just it's it's. I even look at some of the homes I've lived in the past, I can assure you, there has been more wasted space than usable space, and so your mind does kind of start to shift that way, especially with the cost of housing being as high as it is right now.
Brad, this might be a bit of a nerdy question, but what can you tell me about like Tucson? I'm just curious, is it more of like a post, like was it entirely built like after World War II, kind of in the typical American suburban pattern, or is there like a historic core to Tucson? I'm just trying to think because when you're talking about the typical standard family house size, I know that cities more out towards the west kind of follow that pattern a bit more, like the typical suburban pattern, because of when they were built. But I don't know that much about Tucson in particular.
I think if you were to look in central Tucson, right, and then everything kind of starts branching out from there. But if as you as you focus on central Tucson, it is primarily single-story homes. Probably anything. There are houses here that are easily over 100 years old.
But if you were to kind of take a look at where there was some growth post-World War II, you'll see a lot of homes that were built in the 50s and 60s that are 1200, 1400, 1600 square feet, two or three bedrooms with one or two baths. That is the bulk of what you see in central Tucson now? Some of those obviously have been razed and been replaced with something more sizable. But what you also find is that those smaller homes are on large lots? 50 feet wide by 150, sometimes 200 feet deep. the backyards are huge, and there's really nothing there.
Typically, it's dirt, and maybe a cactus or two. So tons of room for there to be an opportunity to build a guest house. As you get wider outside of central Tucson, then you start seeing some of the larger, more traditional suburban homes.
It's really interesting. I've had lots of lots of people on the show who talk about tiny homes, and I'm just so fascinated about the about just the trajectory of how, I guess you could say, I don't know the term that I would use, but sort of the post-World War II building pattern starts in many cases, it kind of starts big, and now we're having to figure out how to shrink back down to fit what people actually need and what they're looking for. when you look at the trajectories of more historic cities that didn't have that pattern, they kind of start small, and then they grow bigger over time.
Whereas we're sort of doing the reverse, we're starting out big, and now we're engaging with the idea of maybe scaling to fit, and like fitting to proper size. Does that make sense?
It does, and I think that the whole concept of a minimalistic, design or decor kind of fits in with a smaller space? what is interesting to me is a lot of times we're selling one of these or building one of these in someone's backyard. Sometimes it's more expensive than the house they originally bought? this is the this is the tiny home? This is the small 600 square-foot one bedroom one bath, and but they bought this house, 25 years ago, the original primary residence that they've been living in, and this now has become the largest financial decision they've ever made.
Prior to it was the it was the original home, but that just kind of speaks to what has happened in terms of the cost of housing, and that's that's nationwide for sure. But as we continue as we continue to grow, it becomes an issue. Right now in Tucson, we are 35,000 houses short of what is needed to handle the population. So solutions like ADUs, guest houses, and casitas are a big part of fixing the problem.
Let's continue the story around tiny homes in Tucson. So you went all in on this initial business that you discovered. What happened next?
Well, I did. I took about 75% of my life savings, my 401k IRA. I bought into a into a franchise, and five weeks later, they folded and eventually filed for bankruptcy, which sounds like the worst possible thing that could happen. at the moment, it sounds terrifying. But what we had to, but in those five weeks, we had already sold three projects?
So I knew that there was a legitimate opportunity. This was something that was needed. We could solve problems that were families were experiencing, and so we took a step back. It took about 45 days, rebranded, and started again as our own company, which has been a tremendous benefit because in my prior pricing, I had to put in royalty fees and technology fees and connectivity fees that would go to a franchisor, I pull all of that out, and our pricing just became so much more competitive, and a lot more families were able to get involved in these types of projects, and we've had a just a tremendous run.
We've we're probably going to finish with our 100th contracted build within the next 45 to 60 days. We have over 85 under contract right now. We've completed 45 of those in literally less than two years. So I look around.
I try to find as much information as I can to see comparatively where does that sit across other ADU builders, but there isn't necessarily a source of truth that you can go to that those numbers aren't aren't haven't been documented yet. But from what I have seen, I haven't seen anyone that has done as many as we have, and I'm not just talking Southern Arizona. I'm talking about across the country in such a short period of time, because there are companies say, "Hey, we've built 100, or we've built 150, but they've been in business since 2016.
So we are, we are, through a lot of pain and mistakes, we have figured out what seems to be a very strong operating system in terms of being an ADU builder, and that's why we're looking to launch ADU Build Print.
Yeah, I'm excited to jump into that. But a few more questions about your company, like what you're working on right now. What stands out to you the most when you're talking to people in Tucson about tiny homes? What are you hearing?
What are you taking away from those conversations?
I would say that if I met with 10 clients or 10 potential individuals that are interested, the ones that have a specific need are the ones that we typically move forward with. So I have a I have an aging parent, or I have I have a 22- or 23-year-old, son or daughter that has graduated from college. The cost of living is ridiculous. They're gonna, but they don't want to come back and live in their old bedroom.
So we're going to build this for them. If there is a legitimate family need, it could be a brother, it could be a sister who just got divorced. Whatever. Those that have family needs are typically the ones that move forward and actually do something.
Now we're starting to see a bit more of a trend in terms of rental income opportunities, where someone already has a rental property and they've got nothing but dirt behind it, and they're like, "Why would I just let that dirt sit there? I'll build a couple more. But I think the biggest standout is if there is a true family need, those are the ones that say, "Yeah, we're going to do this. It's it's it's it's there.
There just aren't a lot of different options, and certainly none that are better in terms of keeping someone close, yet them have letting allowing them to have their own privacy than building a an ADU or casita on property.
From your perspective, what do you think has helped people become more open to the concept of ADUs? Because I, I don't get the impression that they are universally familiar. I know that people are becoming more aware of them, but I think that might be because of my proximity to Strong Towns and different organizations like that, I don't know how well they've saturated sort of like the general consciousness. So I'm just curious: when you're in these conversations, have they heard about them before?
Are you introducing them for the first time? how? Or does it take them time to like get used to it? They're like, this is not really the typical American solution, but your results are showing like they're meeting a need. So how do you make sense of sort of the novelty of the ADU and the response that you're seeing, just in terms of your sales and stuff?
Yeah, I think there's two components to that. One, I think across the country, we're starting to see just in general terms an embrace of multigenerational families living together. Right. So I think it used to be, hey, mom or grandma has the third bedroom on the left.
It wasn't necessarily that they were living in a separate space, but multigenerational living is becoming more and more of a thing for sure. I, I think that the number of young Americans between I think 22 and 30 that are still living at home is somewhere between 25 and 35% and speaking for myself, I was out at 18, and I was like, "That's that. But you had options? There were legitimate, financially available solutions.
Whether you're renting a house, or I'm going to get a roommate, or whatever. Now it's just so expensive, and if you take a look at how much the cost of housing, gas, food, everything has gone up over the last 10 years versus the income, average income, it's so disparate that there you could see how it becomes challenging. So I would say that's number one, and then the other piece that makes it extremely exciting right now is the flexibility of it. It's it's not that this is an ADU that's going to solve a problem today.
I, most people I tell them, hey, this ADU, how we're using this is not permanent. If you're if you're building this for a parent, an aging parent, eventually that parent is going to move on, and then what are you going to use it for? Or if you've got a 25-year-old kid living there, eventually that 25-year-old kid, hopefully, is going to move on.? He's not there for the rest of his life.
So this particular space could serve multiple purposes over the course of 15 or 20 or 30 years that you own your house. It could be a place for grandma. It could be a place for Billy. It could be a home office.
We could actually use it as a rental property, and eventually we may move into the tiny home ourselves.
Billy and his family are going to move into the primary residence. so, when you consider all the different ways that piece that building could be utilized, I think it becomes, it is, and the fact that there is such an embrace of multigenerational living, I don't think it's really it's not something that people really second guess. then I throw one more thing in there would just be this: it certainly in the city of Tucson, Pima County, state of Arizona, they are changing municipalities, cities, and states are changing the rules to allow people to do this, and they-and so people are saying this is this is the next iteration of housing in the United States, and so I think it's becoming really more of a norm.
I'm glad you touched on that because I was going to ask you about that next. If you could just reflect on the regulatory environment in Tucson and what makes your work possible. I don't know if that's. I'm sure that has something to do with zoning and parking rules and stuff like that.
But what makes your work possible there from a regulatory perspective?
So in 2024, interesting timing? I started doing this. We launched in June of 2024, but in January of 2024, the state of Arizona introduced House Bill 2720, which allowed you to build up to two guest houses or ADUs on your property, pretty much in any city in the state that had at least a population of at least 70,000. Right, so Phoenix and certainly Scottsdale and Tucson, all of those fall into that play.
So suddenly, it's you're allowed to do it. They're they're they're encouraging it. then in January of this year, so just nine months ago, they introduced the middle housing initiative. so now, in virtually all of the zip codes in the city of Tucson, Phoenix, etc. You can now build up to four houses on any one parcel, and that is as long as you stay within the setbacks and lot coverage. As long as you can maintain those numbers to be able to build four houses, it speaks to the fact that there is a need for housing, number one, but also I think it's we've got a lot of clients who say, "Hey, we're looking to maybe build a family compound?
We want to be near each other, and we want to be together, and we want to support each other. We just don't all necessarily want to be under the same roof. so, these regulatory changes are making it possible. Even Pima County, which is the county that the city of Tucson sits inside of, they now have you can build one guest house and up to three ADUs if you have at least an acre of land. So plus the primary residence, those places can have five homes on one particular parcel.
They've changed the zoning so that the minimum square-footage has dropped. So if before you were zoned R2 and had a 9000 square-foot lot, that's all you can ever have. But they've reduced the minimum lot size, so now it's only it only has to be 4000 square feet. Now I can take that lot and split it.
I can sell off part of it. I can I could I could build houses and rent. I can build. Four on each of those that is 9000 square feet.
So suddenly you've got duplexes and triplexes and fourplexes that are still small. We're talking 800 to 1000 square feet individual units, but you stack them together. You can put them on a prop on a on a particular parcel and really start putting a dent in the housing challenges.
I think part of the housing challenge is supply regulation, but I think it's also culture and how people associate their sense of identity to the type of house that they live in. I'm just curious your thoughts on that. How do you see the conversation evolving in terms of the typical American dream narrative, when you're starting to talk about things like, oh, well, we might have to start living in duplexes, which some people do not have positive association with the idea of a duplex or a tiny home, or that's not the typical metric of success that people associate with being American.
I know this is a bit of a maybe intellectual question that I'm throwing at you, but I just would love to know your thoughts on that and sort of the culture side and the reframing that we have to do as a culture around housing and the and American identity. What do you think about that.
I think the average age of an American buying their house for buying their first house. So the average age that an American is now buying their first house is it's either close to or is past 40 years old? So that's a big gap. That's a big piece of potential homeowners.
Let's just say between 20 or 22 and 40. That's for the last 20 years now. The average person hasn't been able to afford to buy a house. So I think the concept of the traditional American dream has significantly changed over the last two or three generations, and that expectation of having the big house with the picket fence, and the amazing views is not standard anymore. the concept of spending $300,000 for a three bedroom, two bath house is just hard for a lot of people to swallow and has been for some time.
So I think that also speaks to why we have had this transition to minimalism.? You don't need that much. You don't need to spend all of that money. You don't need to have all that decor.
You don't need to have that much space. That kind of that kind of minimalistic mindset has been growing for a while, and so it helps transition people conceptually from going to hey, I got to have my own property in my own yard that I got to mow and maintain, and I got an HOA I got to deal with. to, "Hey, I just need a place to kind of lay my head at night. I'm going to be more social. I don't want to just sit in my house, and so I think a lot of those things come into play when it when it comes to justification of living in a duplex, triplex, fourplex, something like that versus the standard single family residence.
Well, I think values are changing too. Like what you said around intergenerational living, I think people are starting to reevaluate the American deal when it comes to what we've been told is the normal the norm in terms of this is what makes you successful and I think more people are saying like we want community we want connection we don't want to spend all of our money and our time keeping up with this standard of living that's been handed to us, and told that's what it means to be a successful American. I think the tiny house movement, the ADU movement.
I think part of why it's gaining traction is because people can see it as a means to living a more connected life, or maybe having an improved sense of community, or being having more freedom to put their resources towards the things that really matter to them? Rather than having their own set of lawn care equipment,
? Yeah, right. I think there's also the term that's that has been around for a while is this concept of being house poor? I think that there's there's definitely a generation of people are like, yeah, I don't want to be house poor.
I don't want to have all of my money tied up in a mortgage payment that I've got to make. That basically means that I've got to stay at home all the time because I don't have any money to go do anything else. Right, I can't afford to go on a vacation. I can't afford to travel because I've tied all of my income up into this home.
I think that also is and we've all heard it? This concept. I think people are like, yeah, I don't think I want to be I don't want to be married or trapped by my mortgage payments. So I'm willing to look at other things that allow me to be more involved in my community.
Or experience other cultures, etc. I can travel. I can do other things rather than just sitting here tied to this anchor.
I've never heard of that term. That is so interesting. I think because I'm really sensitive to transit. I moved to Texas from Brooklyn, New York, and so the biggest pain point for me probably has more to do with the loss of public transportation and everything that comes with that.
But I like the idea of like car poor. I don't have a car payment. Mine is just cash, used car. But still, the idea of your yeah.
I think this is a really interesting concept of like it. I think it can really challenge us to take a step back and say, like, yeah, where are we having to put our resources? every time I have to go get gas, I just groan a little bit because I can't help but think about what I could do with that instead.
Or yeah, just the cost of keeping up, propping up this system,. then you start to you start to think like, especially when you've had a different experience, like living in a city where you just paid 100, $120 a month and could get anywhere, and didn't have to worry about cash and insurance, and now I have to go get my oil change, and I'm worried about the tires. all these things that start to stack up, and you think like, man, if I didn't have to spend money on this, what could I spend this money on? it really, I think it really is an invitation for us as a culture to reevaluate like what we count to be success and what is a good quality of life outside of these typical possessions and rhythms of life that have been handed down to us, sort of mind that we've just sort of absorbed mindlessly.
I will. I feel like I could ask you more, and I feel like I could just keep going down this rabbit trail, but I want to talk about something that's really interesting to your brand. You use the term casita, and anybody who spends time looking at your website or your Instagram will see that you have a very unique architectural style of design. Can you share about that a little bit? was that an intentional decision to really, use this language of Casita and really built more in this southwestern style.
Yeah, definitely. I will say, when we first started with the first company as a franchisee? They showed you. They provided you the floor plans.
They provided you the models. It was a more traditional, I guess, Northern California style. every time you would sit down with the client, and they were like, "Is it going to look like this? That was the question I always got. I'm like, "No, no, we'll we'll we'll make it look like whatever you want.
But what they wanted, and what we traditionally want, and what we tell clients is, when we're done, this house is going to look like it was built when the primary residence was built. It is going to look the same. It's going to be one architecture. Now there are a lot of older homes that are brick, and masonry is extremely expensive.
So we try to stay with more of a stucco finish. But the Santa Fe style, the southwestern style, that kind of Mexico influenced or Southern California influenced look is the one that is typically selected. We are starting to see a little bit more of a trend of what I would call Southwest contemporary. People are kind of they like that look.
It does invite more windows, and windows in the desert invite a lot more sun and heat and issues with that. But yes, there is definitely an intentionality around. We want this to complement the primary residence, and a lot of times, if you're dealing with HOAs, that there are rules around it that require they have like an HOA architectural design that it has to look like this. In fact, there's a section, there's an area down close to downtown Tucson where if you're building a house there of any kind, they have to have wood windows.
Wood windows is not really something that I would recommend in Southern Arizona. One, termites. Two, the wear and tear from monsoon season to 115 degree heat, not awesome for wood, but you have to have it because those they want to maintain that architectural style in that particular area, historic district. So there are certain historic districts where you've got to adhere to, hey, it can only be this high.
It has to look like this in the front, or what have you. Well, I really like the style. I, I especially for hotter area, we have a tiny bit of Spanish architecture in Waco, and I always, I kind of fantasize. I'm like, ah, if I had Jeannie in the bottle, I would just wave my wand
And transform all of the city into Spanish architecture. If I could, it makes so much sense because Texas is a pretty hot place, and I, I just think it's really interesting the relationship between the materials you build with the esthetic and the actual part of the country that you're in. I think it's, the list of things that frustrate me about American cities is very long, but I think one of them is this sort of lack of architectural vernacular, where it's like we've lost the dialog, and I think it's because.
We have air conditioners, so you can just sort of control for everything, and so now we can just build everything in the same exact way. that's why you can take a road trip coast to coast, and basically you'll see the same exact buildings, unless you go to an interesting place like Santa Fe, and then it's like, oh wow, now this trip means something because we're seeing something we can't see in another part of the country.
So I just I thought that was very interesting, and I think that's that's neat that you all strive to for that continuity, that as that visual continuity between the main house and the little house, because it really does tell a coherent story, and it I don't know makes it feel like they go together?
Rather than having two totally different styles. One other thought, just on that, if you look at some of the larger, and there's not many, but if you look at some of the larger estates, older estates in Tucson and in Southern Arizona, you're going to see separate facilities like for the maid or for the groundskeepers and things like that, and so those homes were built at the same time as the original, and those servants' quarters or what have you. Today, they still when they were built originally had its own kitchen, had its own bathroom, and so you and it had that same kind of casita style.
It's it's separate from the house, but it's close enough where they can provide the services that they're providing. The that kind of concept is really what we're taking. We're saying, hey, there is another home on the property that was built intentionally. It was for someone to be close but separate, and that's what we're doing now.
Same concept? We're building it intentionally. We want it to look retro that it was built intentionally and has been there from the beginning, and it's to keep someone close, but allow them to have their own their own privacy.
So I would like to talk now about ADU Build Print. I think this is very interesting. What you're working on, it's software, if I recall correctly. But how about I let you explain it?
Tell me about this other side to your operation, and what you're, what the problem you're hoping to solve.
Yeah, it's it's it's even evolved since you and I chatted a few weeks ago? So it's what it is an operating system to help builders build ADUs, and it has nothing to do with how to swing a hammer. They all know how to build an ADU, but it's actually helping them to build an ADU company? So, or the division of their construction company.
ADUs are projected to grow from an $8.6 billion industry to $14 billion in the next seven years. That is tremendous growth. There are a lot of construction companies or tradesmen out there and tradeswomen who they can tap into that huge growth opportunity, but they don't necessarily know how. They know how to build a house.
They don't know how to build an ADU company, and it is very different than building residential homes. So, as I mentioned earlier, we've made some mistakes. We've learned a lot of things, but over the last couple of years, we've basically taken and created an operating system with various software partners, and and outsourced organizations that has allowed us to get to a place where we've contracted 85 of these builds. I didn't mention this earlier, but it's important to know now.
I'm the only salesperson. I only have one employee? So we're doing all of this. We're gonna we're gonna be somewhere around $16 million in revenue by the end of this month since we started, and that type of growth is just that's you're not going to see that typically, and you're certainly not going to see it with a company that has two employees.
But if you utilize the right software programs and you utilize the right outsourced partners for marketing, finance, HR, what have you, you can build a business like this, while solving a problem in your community, helping families, and doing it in a way where you yourself can prosper and make a make a good business or a good quality of life for yourself. So that's kind of what we started out doing. I was talking to a gentleman who was asking me, "Hey, you guys are doing so good. Are you going to franchise?
I said, "Nah, I've kind of gone down the franchise path. I don't think that's really my deal. Yeah, but I. But he said, "Well, you should do something with it because you've got you've obviously tapped into something.
You've figured out how to do something that I'm sure a lot of people are struggling with, or you could provide a path a roadmap on how they could build their own business doing something like this in their respective community and so I started kind of giving that some thought and in a fairly short period of time I said yeah I guess if you really look at this there this is so repeatable. there's there's no there's no like really there's no magic bean here. I'll just show people exactly what we've done. They get to eliminate all the mistakes we've made, and they'll even be able to do it faster and better than we've done it here.
That's really exciting. The one question I have about your model: How do you factor in like you're able. Your part of your success has to do with the regulatory environment in your city. How do you factor that component into this operating system?
Is it, best? Is it a better fit for communities that kind of have already tackled the zoning reform and the parking reform that's needed for these to be built, or how do you how do you navigate that side?
Yeah, probably. honestly, probably it is better. But here's what I do think: it is changing constantly. these rules are rolling out across various municipalities, cities, counties, and states across the country every day. I have a finance partner who I recommend all my clients go to get their funding, mortgages, financing, whatever done on our projects. he has like a monthly like newsletter that he sends out, and every month there's a portion of that talks about all the other the new cities that have adopted new ADU regulations. so this is this is not something that's going to go away.
We're not going from 8.6 billion to 14 billion because it's kind of dropping off. it is getting ready to hockey stick up, and so even if right this second your particular cities or counties around you don't have a program in place, they're going to. They're they're going to. It's going to happen. I think it does require some research? you do you do need to stay up on top of those things, and contrary to popular belief, the cities and the counties, the people that work there that are that you've got to work with to get permits or whatever the case may be, they actually want to help you?
It's not like they're trying to hold you back. They want. They need to make sure that you're doing it by the rules. But we've learned more from them than probably anything else. you ask the questions in the right way.
It's not a can I. It's how do I.? Can I do this? Can I do that?
Can we build here? Can we build there? That's the wrong question. The question is, "How do I build here?" Let's chat about this together.
Help me figure out how to help this family. If you're doing it from that perspective, the conversation just opens up, and we get a ton of assistance from cities and counties and municipalities. That part of it has really been has been awesome.
That's really encouraging to hear. My last question in this vein is: What are what are you seeing on the on the capital side, on the financing side? Are you seeing more? I'm not a huge financial expert, so I might not use the right word.
But in terms of access to capital to build these kinds of projects, are you seeing more openness there, more alignment with reality that we need more variety and more options, and we need capital for those options on the housing side? What's standing out to you?
Yeah, I definitely think there is. five years ago, here's the biggest problem with financing ADUs or guest houses or casitas, and it's it's not necessarily a banking issue. It's just a concept of the industry. It's comps. you don't have comps because there's not a lot of other buildings or homes around here that have another ADU on it to understand what is that value and how do I factor that when trying to get funding or financing on another project that has traditionally been the biggest challenge.
But as more and more of these are getting built, more and more comps are being established, and now banking and financing institutions are able to do a lot more. That's number one. Number two, the concept of the home equity line of credit, the HELOC, that's what most people are tapping into to build one of these, because you're only borrowing the amount of money you need at each stage of the of the construction. So one of our projects takes six months, start to finish.
You say you want to do it. It takes us 90 days to get a permit. It takes us 90 days to build the house. So six month period of time.
Well, in that first 90 days, there's nothing happening in your yard. Nothing's getting built. No materials are being bought yet? Because we don't even have a permit to know that we can.
But if you were to borrow in a traditional sense all of that money up front, you're making full-blown mortgage payments across a period of 90 days when there's literally nothing happening. So a HELOC gives you the ability to only borrow what you need as the project goes along, and I think when all is said and done, over that six-month period of time, it is the least money out of pocket that a homeowner will spend. then at the end, if they want to refinance it, they can. so, yes, those programs are becoming much more available.
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. That's I'm I'm glad to have learned that, Brad. This has been a really great and interesting conversation. I'm I'm feeling inspired, and I'm sure our listeners are as well.
In closing, I would love it if you could tell us a little bit about Tucson as a as a town. What makes it feel like home to you, and what are a couple businesses you like to recommend people check out if they come to visit?
Yeah, absolutely. So one thing I would say is that Tucson, Arizona, is surrounded by five mountain ranges. A lot of people don't realize that, but the mountain views in this city are unbelievable, and that's why it's home to me. I came to the University of Arizona as a sophomore back in 1987, and I was just blown away.
Obviously, love the warmer temperatures, and no, the 107 degree heat doesn't bother me. I've lived in Houston and I've lived in South Florida, so I've been. I would prefer the dry heat to the humid humidity, but beautiful, beautiful city, and the views are incredible, and then you've got the saguaros, and that are only in the Sonoran Desert. that's truly where they came from in the entire world. When you think of a tip, when someone says cactus, what you think of is a saguaro cactus, and that is all.
Those are only in the Sonoran Desert natively. So that's Tucson is in the middle of the Sonoran Desert. I guess they are considered businesses, but here would be the things that I would want someone to potentially consider when they come here. One is the Saguaro National Park.
Driving through there is it's not like anything you've seen. Mount Lemmon is oh about an hour and five minute drive straight up the Catalina Mountains. There's actually a ski resort there, and it is probably 25 to 30 degrees cooler any time during the course of the year. Amazing that you can experience that while still being in the desert.
You can literally be playing golf in your shorts in Tucson and look up and see snow on the mountains, which is an amazing thing to do. But nearby here, the city of Tombstone is-I mean, just the culture and the history behind that city. The town of Bisbee is amazing for culture and arts. But Tucson was recently the first named City of Gastronomy.
This is where tons of these chefs are coming here to start something special, and then take whatever it is that they've created and potentially move somewhere else. But there are amazing. If you're a foodie, virtually every time you turn around, there's a new amazing restaurant opening up here. So those are some of the things that I would definitely want someone to check out if they were coming into the area.
Do you have a favorite restaurant at this time?
Okay, for southwestern like Mexican food, Amelia's. This guy was like a James Beard. I think semifinalist. Awesome.
There's two locations. I also like Wildflower, which has been around for about 20 years, but always has changing concepts and. always excellent service and great place to eat.
Fantastic. Well, thank you for those recommendations and thank you so much for taking time to come speak with me on this show. It's been a pleasure.
My pleasure was all mine. Thank you so much again. Humbled. Appreciate the opportunity.
Looking forward to chatting with you again soon. All right, to our listeners, thank you for joining me for another conversation. I'll be putting links to everything in the show notes so you can learn more about Brad and the work that he's doing. I'll be back soon with another conversation.
In the meantime, keep doing what you can to build a strong town.
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