Getting involved in your city doesn’t have to feel like homework. Margaret Allen works at a bank and is part of Strong Des Moines, where meetings feel less like formal civic duty and more like a group of people genuinely excited about figuring things out together. That atmosphere has pulled her deeper into city budgets, council meetings, and conversations she once would have tuned out. It has also made the group more willing to borrow good ideas from elsewhere, including Strong Towns Chicago’s improv series, as they find their own ways to make local issues easier to talk about and more fun to be part of.
Hello and welcome to Bottom Up Shorts. I'm Norm with Strong Towns, and I am delighted to be able to connect with our members and participants in our local conversations, people who are taking notice of the challenges that are in our places and saying, "You know what? Maybe it's me, too, that can help in fixing that."
Joining me today is Margaret Allen, who is with Strong Des Moines, a local conversation group in Des Moines, Iowa, that is doing awesome stuff raising awareness about the financial condition of the community and asking questions about land use, housing, transportation, and so many other important issues. Margaret, welcome to Bottom Up Shorts.
Thank you very much. Excited to be here.
How would you describe the energy and the activity of your local conversation group?
Oh, we have no shortage of energy. That's actually one of the things I really like about my group, is that we all have a lot of pluck and a lot of zeal and a lot of ambition. We're a newer group. We're getting to a larger size, but in terms of idea generation, there's no shortage.
Really, what we're looking at now is coming up with logistical plans, if an attack is maybe not the right word, but strategies of influence and ways to advocate as effectively as possible.
Well, that's the challenge, isn't it? Knowing, hey, there are so many different areas that we could be pressing on, and yet we have to sort of conserve our resources and be quite thoughtful about that. Can you let us in on a little bit? Maybe you don't have to give away your playbook, but what are some of the areas where you've realized, this is how we can sort of refine that and use our resources for more impact?
Personally, in my role, I work at a bank in a client-facing role, so I feel I've been very, very lucky because a lot of the clients in my portfolio are the local nonprofit organizations that I would really want to partner with to advocate for Strong Towns and our community writ large.
In conversations with them, it's so affirming to see that there's so much that I felt I needed to tell them, but they, of course, already know and have been working on it for a very long time. Getting that information out to the masses, when you're working so much in the daily details and trying to find funding for things, seems to be where they struggle a little bit.
I'm very loud and have a lot of energy, as does the rest of our Strong Towns group. I think one thing we're really engaged and interested in doing is finding a way to be that boots-on-the-ground person standing behind someone in line at the grocery store who can pipe up and join a conversation and, in a really approachable and encouraging way, say something that maybe they didn't know, or just mention the group, when they can find a meeting, and who else is in the group that they might know. So, yeah, trying to be good neighbors and move forward with sharing information.
I love that because it is exactly the vision that I have, too, of, at the curbside or at the grocery store or at a kid's soccer game, whatever that looks like, there's an opportunity to sort of lean over and say, "Oh, I notice that you're having a conversation about something that I care about, and let's have that in a deeper way."
I think from a Strong Towns perspective, then all of a sudden it's also not just noticing a problem and saying, "Ah, the systems in place are just working against us." Instead, it's, "Well, here's some of the small things that we can start to do, the actions that give rise to further actions down the road." The value of being in a local conversation is that it definitely weaves together a bunch of us, so that way we're together taking this action.
What are meetings like, if you want to share, and what are some of the ways that those meetings then give rise to action?
I love our meetings so much. Elliot, Chris, and Dina on our team do such a fantastic job of finding leaders in local nonprofit groups to come in and tell us about their mission. We walk away with so much more information.
We also have a lot of chance to really discuss what we're learning in the session, which I think is critical because no one really likes to be talked at in perpetuity for an hour and a half. But when we get to really collaborate and hear different things from each other and brainstorm, find out what actually gets us super excited, those are the moments where it feels like a really fun college group where you're all working on the same project together.
There's just an adorable level of earnestness. I do not tell anyone I call them adorable, but there's really an affirming, shared sense of earnestness that I love in those groups.
Is there a secret sauce to getting people from other organizations and entities to come, or is it actually just ask, and most often they will do their earnest best to come?
I think people are generally busy, but one thing that I've noticed as we try to spread more of the word about this Strong Towns group in Des Moines is that there are a lot of barriers to entry for nonprofits to spread their message. Tabling is a fantastic way to spread awareness, but it still costs $200 in some instances to have a table and to get shirts for your organization. That money has to come from somewhere. Even the stickers, that I have recently learned about, are a huge thing. I was not a sticker person beforehand. That money has to come from somewhere.
Really, what we're offering in those meetings is 20 to 30 people who will give you their clear and undivided attention and really listen to what your message is, what you're struggling with, and how we can help. It's such good human time to really give someone the platform that they've been looking for to talk to a group of people who want to do something to help.
Ah, yeah. What stands out to me, too, is this is not a monopoly where you're trying to say, "We need the attention of our group members, and now we need to sort of keep it and store it, and it can only be put to our purposes," because you're saying, across our community, we have many groups that are all rowing in the same direction. As you said, there's visibility challenges, so we can help with that.
Then there's also times where it's, "Oh, you care about the same things." When we come to council, we can say, "Hey, council members, did you know there's a healthier, more vibrant community conversation going on about this?"
One thing that stands out to me, too, is your focus on in person. I'm sure that there's a virtual component or online, but being in person, can you share just why that tends in the right direction rather than the pitched stuff that we end up in on Facebook or other platforms and things like that?
I think it lends itself so well to connection after the group. In one of our instances, we had someone from a neighborhood that has a lot of social services in their neighborhood, to the extent where it seems that new social services are not going into other neighborhoods.
After we had discussed some of the budget issues in the city of Des Moines, it seemed pretty apparent that that neighborhood was possibly being disproportionately affected by that. So she got to mention some of that. It didn't take up the entire meeting, but after the meeting, there were maybe three or four of us that wanted to have a pull-away conversation with her: "Can you tell us more about this? What does it look like for us to have your back? What additional information do you need? What do you think success looks like if this was something you were going to bring to City Council? What is the end game here? Just to be heard, or is it to make change?"
Being able to talk that through with someone when they may not feel heard by other organizations, I think that's really powerful.
Yeah, that gives me just that sense of there's this deep purpose in what we do. It's sharing that presence in a place and saying, "I notice what you're doing. I notice what you're going through. I notice that you may know how you want things to go, and we can be here to help you with that."
Specifically, with the city of Des Moines rolling out a really interesting tool with its budget calculator and sort of putting on the community the opportunity, at least, to grapple with, "Hey, if we're going to meet our spending targets and our revenue targets in the coming year, we're going to have to make some changes." Your group was able to gain advice. We did an Ask Strong Towns Anything session where we actually just went through some of the questions to ask in that context.
What's sort of been the follow-on to that? Maybe, actually, for the podcast listeners, some wouldn't have been part of the Ask Strong Towns Anything session. Do you want to set the stage and share how that was an exercise that I think your group was able to engage in in a positive way, in a fruitful way, rather than just being, "Ah, bad city, bad finances, bad problems that we all have to deal with"?
Oh, I'd be happy to talk about that. There was recent property tax legislation in the state of Iowa that limited the amount of, I know I'm going to get the word wrong here, property tax revenue that they could make in a given year, which dramatically affected the city's operating budget. So the city created sort of an online tool for residents to go through and evaluate some specific departmental cuts that they could possibly make to address the budget shortfalls for the upcoming years.
This was my entry point into municipal finance. Of all of the Strong Towns tenets, this was the one I was the least interested in, and now it's maybe the one I know the most about. We were able to have some really meaningful conversations as a group. I went to my first, this is not radical in any stretch of the imagination, but I went to my first City Council meetings, and man, that is such a good use of time. That's a separate conversation, but in terms of seeing people be passionate and learning so much, so worthwhile.
As a group, we were able to talk through some of the line items, ask really good questions. As I find is so often the case, there may be one line item that I have a very strong feeling about, but I learn something new, and then my opinion changes dramatically. Through that exercise of talking through that calculator and getting your assistance with the financial decoder, we were able to have meaningful conversations with our local leaders about that, which I think is fantastic and really a testament to the leadership in our Strong Towns group.
My concern with that financial decoder is that if I take that to someone, why should they believe me? Of course, Strong Towns has all of these materials, but how do you really get someone to look at something and take it seriously when they're getting hundreds of emails every day? That's, I think, kind of a bit of a sell. I feel very lucky that through our connections, I believe we're going to be able to have some meaningful conversations about that.
At this point, I do believe that the budget shortfalls for the next couple of years have been addressed, but our community is really interested in finding creative solutions to generate revenue elsewhere so that we can be, my dad always says, looking to something instead of running from it. Run to something instead of running from something. What can we do to find solutions? Because it's not just our community; every community in the state is going to be subject to similar limitations, and we want to be, I think you said in another podcast, the second person to do a really good idea. I love that. We don't need to be first here, but we want to be very thoughtful about it.
Yeah, and being thoughtful seems to be one of the things that stands out about you and just your approach. Can you shed just a little bit of light on who you are and the profile that you bring to this? Because what I love about our Bottom Up Shorts podcast is that we are able to say we have bus drivers and bank employees, city staff, this whole range of folks, students and retirees.
What about you? You're at the bank as a day job, but you also have responsibilities in a local conversation. Just how did this come to be, I guess?
My good friend Dina got started in Strong Towns before I did, and she is a model citizen of going out of her way to help her neighbors. She really feels it in her blood, a need to support her community, and that's such an endearing characteristic of hers.
I went to the National Gathering, and when we heard Sam speak and he mentioned just how he was able to find all of these communities where substance abuse had been a huge issue, it really spoke to me because in my own community, I have had substance abuse issues and had troubles finding housing. I did have to rely on public transportation and really couldn't afford basic needs for a while. It wasn't really until I got to the National Gathering and heard that called out where I thought, "Oh, this does apply to me."
Of course, my circumstances have changed dramatically since that time, but I have an absolute interest in creating alternative housing options for those who are having mental health issues, substance abuse issues. I think everyone has a heartstring, or perhaps more than one heartstring, that will tie into something with Strong Towns. Once you tap into that value-based action, you have so much more energy and bandwidth to really try and help.
Knowing more about public transportation and the changes that they've made, finding out more about ways where we can increase gentle density in our neighborhoods, and actually having a group that loves to talk about it has been fantastic. Dina continues to be a fantastic role model.
Yeah. Well, shout out to Dina, then. That's awesome. I love that. One of the analogies that comes to mind is, depending on your context, if cricket is a foreign sport to you or if rugby is, if you go to your first game, you're just, "I don't know what's going on. The ref just blew a whistle. I don't really know why. It looked like they were just hitting each other."
But then if you have someone else who says, "Hey, I'll watch with you and I'll explain things as we go. Oh, that's called a lineout, or that counts for six, or that counts for 10." Then all of a sudden you realize, "Oh, this is ordered in its own way. It has its own sort of structure and its own purpose, but also I can now speak with a little bit more confidence and be able to participate in it."
That, to me, is that process of, "Hey, just come along, and I will help you." I know for us with public hearings, we did a bingo game during the public hearing, so that way people could take note of cranky things that were said by neighbors, and instead of feeling it deeply and being, "Oh, why do they call me a renter criminal as a renter?" instead be, "But at least I get to mark something off of my bingo sheet." Those are little practices that we were trying to use to just introduce people and welcome them in and participate. Maybe for you, do you have a tip or suggestion that you would offer?
I think it just adds so much color to my life. To your point with the bingo card, to have my ears be able to perk up when I hear things. We have a large commercial real estate department at the bank that I work at, and so many interesting things start with a commercial real estate deal. Learning more about funding stacks, working with the DART system, our regional transit provider in the area, it really does become a dog whistle or something, maybe like six-seven, where anytime I hear it now, regardless of whether it's cool or not, I feel so much more engaged in my community.
I met someone maybe two years ago who bragged about never paying for parking, and it's interesting how much a person can learn and change. I think finding the enthusiasm and looking for those words you recognize in polite conversation is a really great way to make your day more interesting.
Yeah, I love that on parking, where it's, there's so much value in this area for me to be here that parking actually has a price, which it always has a price, but there's a posted price, and I'm willing to pay it. Or I'm going to find myself saying, "Hey, not only did I pay for parking, but then I also hopped on a bus and went some distance," the things that we now delight in or add to our personal bingo sheet.
I love that, Margaret. Just as we close, what is it that gives you hope in everything that you're doing within the community and, just more broadly, as you look ahead?
I came back from the National Gathering so filled with information and thought, "I just need to Mary Tyler Moore into the middle of a street and proclaim everything that I've learned." I've loved reaching out to these nonprofits, and really, I don't have to teach them anything. They know so much already about what needs to get done, and I'm really excited about the creative ways that we're going to help them achieve that, or at least try to.
We're kind of, I don't want to say that we're stealing, we've borrowed the Chicago Strong Towns group's idea of that, oh my gosh, how have I forgotten the name? Funny You Should Care. Yes, improv series. So now we're finding ways with our own improv series to try and spread more information about urbanist topics. So, a lot of positive momentum.
Wow, that makes me think maybe we'll have to have a group activity that's just an improv. It would be virtual, or else do it at the National Gathering, but that would be fantastic as well, and I'm sure a lot of fun.
Margaret, I'm sure that you, as well as the broader Strong Towns Des Moines group, you're a breath of fresh air in your community. But it's also been a breath of fresh air to be able to have this conversation. Thank you for coming on Bottom Up Shorts today.
Thank you very much for your time, Norm.
Really appreciate it. Folks, I hope you are as energized by this conversation as I am, and I hope that as you continue to take note of things in your community, you will find that opening. Sometimes it might be asking somebody who's already engaged in the work, "Can you come share what you're doing?" Then, as you do, all of a sudden these things now take on new relevance, and you realize they are within our orbit of things that we can take greater responsibility for and actually find some real satisfaction as we see good change occur.
With that, take care and take care of your places.
This episode was produced by Strong Towns, a nonprofit movement for building financially resilient communities. If what you heard today matters to you, deepen your connection by becoming a Strong Towns member at strongtowns.org/membership.