Cities regularly ask residents for feedback, especially when budgets tighten or difficult tradeoffs approach. Norm and Mary Kate Norton look at what changes when people respond as an organized group instead of a collection of individual voices. They trace how Local Conversations grow from first meetings and small projects into groups that can communicate clearly, build relationships with public officials and take part in larger policy fights. A good idea may open the door, but organized local support gives it a better chance of surviving the meeting, carrying into the next discussion and becoming something the city can’t easily set aside.
Hello, and welcome to Bottom Up Shorts. I'm Norm with Strong Towns, and I'm delighted each week to introduce our audience to folks who are doing the work in their communities. I normally get to do that, but today I'm going to do something a little different because it's summer, and we want to celebrate the whole mass of folks in the Strong Towns movement who are taking action where they live, particularly in our Local Conversations.
Rather than asking one Local Conversation leader to talk about their group, or maybe talk about all the groups in general, I'm going to ask Mary Kate Norton, our mobilization and training coordinator, to talk about all the energy, excitement, real challenges, and grappling with needs in the communities that we're seeing within the Local Conversations program. Welcome, Mary Kate. It's so good to have you on.
Thanks for having me on again, Norm.
You've been in your role now for, what is it, six months? Seven months? Comment on that. It looks to me as though you're the person surfing a wave and trying to keep up with it. There's so much energy within the Local Conversations program. Can you describe what that's like and what your impressions are so far?
It's so much fun, and it's exciting and impressive, too, because the Local Conversations that are doing really cool things often have season-by-season projects. This summer, I'm celebrating all the work that many Local Conversations were doing around the legislative season in their places this spring, and looking at some cool, hyper-specific summer programs and projects that people are working on. I like the image of surfing a wave. It's a fun place to be.
Let's break this out in stages. Tell me about the folks who are just getting started and some of your impressions of the types of people who are stepping up and volunteering to explore the possibility of getting a Local Conversation started.
It's anyone and everyone. This past week, I've had calls with a young parent who is getting started in a new place where they just moved with their family, and calls with folks who may be in the planning profession or local government. I met with the mayor of a small town earlier this week about getting a Local Conversation started to support the work they're doing in their own place and get outside advocates into their local government, pushing for the right kinds of projects. Everybody is starting a Local Conversation this summer, which is neat.
What always impresses me when I talk to people who are just getting started is the enthusiasm they bring to learning all the ins and outs of the Local Conversations program, but also Strong Towns more generally. There's so much information, and I want to encourage anybody listening: If you're thinking about starting one but thinking, 'Oh, I don't have enough information yet. I haven't learned enough yet to start one,' no, you absolutely have learned enough, and you can start one. We have everything you need to get started. That first step is the hardest part, but people are taking the Local Conversations program and building it out in a way that works in their place. That's really cool.
On our team, Tony Harris, you, and I take these onboarding calls. Why is that helpful? When I have a call, it seems that people are frequently starting out and saying, 'I want to follow a tried-and-true method. I also want to lower the fear factor and use my time well.' What are some of the things that stand out in the onboarding calls you're taking?
What stands out for me is how different each person's background is when they come to the onboarding calls. I don't know if this has been your experience too, Norm, but people often say to me, 'Well, I'm not this, but I want to start a Local Conversation.' This could be, 'Well, I'm not retired, so I don't have much time.' 'Well, I'm not working anymore, so I might not be the right person.' 'Well, I'm a parent.' There are all these versions of, 'I'm probably not the right person,' and people come in with that feeling across the board.
In the onboarding calls, I like being able to say, 'No, you are exactly where you need to be. We have all the resources you need to get from wherever you are to a strong Local Conversation. There's somebody with a similar story to yours in a different place who got one started, and it has really taken off in their community. It's okay. You're the right person, and thanks for being here.'
People will say, 'I'm just a parent,' 'I'm just a concerned citizen,' or 'I'm just a student in my town.' Being a 'just a' is a superpower. That's not to discount folks who do this for a living or people who are really experienced in this. We welcome that and see real value in it, too. But being 'just a' is a prelude to saying, 'That's why I care about this.' I think that ties things together.
We've got lots of support available for folks who want to learn what it takes. Could you share your impressions of our stage one groups? Maybe describe what stage one is and what you're seeing as people get over that first hurdle of meeting with a few other folks and seeing the seed start to germinate. Then we put them on our map and start to celebrate that they're there, yet they are also in a very formative, sensitive stage. Do you want to share a little about those experiences?
Yes. Those stage one groups are just getting started. They've got their group of three or five people. It's such a nurturing stage, and stage one in the Local Conversations program is 'learn to gather.' It's about bringing people together and starting to have that community conversation without worrying about zoning reforms, comprehensive plans, or highway expansion. It's just gathering.
Local Conversations have such a cool opportunity to gather in neat ways over the summer. I'm in Minnesota, and in the winter there aren't as many fun places to gather, but you could gather at an ice cream spot or in the park. There are all these opportunities in the summer.
I'm thinking about Strong Towns Twin Cities, which just got started in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area. They had their second meeting last month, and they're planning a Jane's Walk for July to get out there and humbly observe one of the many neighborhoods in the Twin Cities, get their boots on the ground, and start thinking about what they might want to do as a first or second small project. Those small, incremental steps toward placemaking and transforming their community are the first ones that come to mind.
Many Local Conversations have just gotten started this summer and spring. Strong Towns Lexington and others are building that meeting muscle and the rhythm of coming together, talking about the Strong Towns approach, and then starting to take small actions: building a bus bench, doing a Jane's Walk, or taking a transit ride together. They grow from there. That's how it all starts. The foundation of any transformation is that gathering piece, that coming together.
We're talking about 160 of our 270 groups being in stage one, where they're learning to gather. They're taking those steps, finding their feet, and beginning to build. Then we have 33 in stage two, which is the 'learn to communicate' stage. Do you want to offer some of your impressions and some of the things that are standing out there? This is part of that development. They've done summer activities or participated together, but they're starting to take on greater form and more mature characteristics.
Stage two is 'learn to communicate,' so all the support and resources that come from Strong Towns at that point are about how you communicate your message. You've got your core group. Look around the room and ask who's not represented in your Local Conversation and how you need to communicate your message in a way that brings more people to the movement and the table. That builds community understanding of what your group is and what your Local Conversation is doing, and it informs your work going forward.
You're moving from that stage one group, where you've got five or 10 people around the table, to a stage two group where you're really communicating outward. Maybe you're writing articles, building a social media presence, and starting to communicate with elected officials and staff in your community as well. Communicating with a neighbor who lives down the road and whom you've known for 20 years can be different from communicating the same idea in a meeting with a planner on your local municipal staff. Stage two is about how you're going to communicate your ideas across lines of difference and to everybody in your place.
I think a lot about Strong Towns Artesia, which is one of the strongest stage two groups building out near Los Angeles. They do a really good job of bringing people together for things such as a trash cleanup and using that as an opportunity for everyday citizens in the community to get to know and communicate with public officials who might show up, city staff who participate, and other advocacy and community groups in their neighborhood that collaborate on these trash pickups. They're building those relationships and strengthening communication across the board when it comes to Strong Towns topics in Artesia.
For time, we'll lump together our stage three and four groups. They are distinct and at different levels of development, but do you want to share some of the common features and the successes or triumphs we're seeing?
Absolutely. The stage three and stage four groups are growing into this space of effective advocacy. You have 15, 20, or 40 people coming together regularly to not only build bus benches but also advocate for better bus times, taking things to the next level and creating a both-and approach to change.
I'm really excited this summer about the work the Illinois groups did collaboratively. Strong Towns BloNo is a stage four Local Conversation in Bloomington-Normal, Illinois. Strong Towns Chicago is a stage four Local Conversation. Together with some of the other Local Conversations in Illinois, they advocated effectively for higher-level change that would allow for that local-level push for incremental housing in their communities.
The way they organized around pushing for these reforms at the state level is powerful and impressive. I think it can be an example to groups looking to move the needle in their communities by building relationships. Strong Towns BloNo in Bloomington-Normal and Strong Towns Chicago have both spent years building those relationships, communicating and gathering with local officials, staff, concerned citizens, advocacy groups, and community groups. That got them to a place where they could be a powerful, credible voice in the conversation about housing at the state level. That's really cool.
I'm also thinking about what they're doing in San Diego, which is making public transit fun and normal. They started a Last Stop Society within their Local Conversation, where they dress up and go do fun things on transit. I think it's brilliant because conversations around transit, housing, parking, and all the conversations we have at Strong Towns can become so charged in our local contexts and get complicated so fast. What Strong Towns San Diego, one of our stage four Local Conversations, is doing is saying, 'Hey, it doesn't have to be this deep, crazy, serious, and intense thing. It can be fun to dress up and ride transit with our friends.'
Yeah.
That's just beautiful.
What stood out to me today during our Ask Strong Towns Anything session for Strong Towns members was that we spent an hour talking about Des Moines, Iowa. Four members of the Local Conversation group there presented a question to the group of members: 'Our city has made it known to us that some very serious budget cuts will be necessary because of upcoming revenue shortfalls. What are we supposed to do about this?' The city was asking the community for input.
I love that any citizen should take advantage of those opportunities, but we were able to help guide and shape a discussion with the folks from the Local Conversation. Your organization or entity can also influence that conversation in more structured or formal ways, weighing in and participating in the discussions not only as an individual, but also as a representative of a broader group of people who are interested in these things.
It reminds me of something Chuck said quite a while ago. When an individual walks into City Hall with something they want the city to do, they're often just a person with an idea, and there's real power in that. I experienced that when I shared content with city staff and said, 'Have you considered parking benefit districts, for example?' There was a polite reception, and I was asked to speak to a transportation committee, but it died there. This was in a city where I don't live now, but where we previously lived.
Had I gone in and said, 'By the way, we're also hosting follow-up conversations with our Local Conversation group,' or, 'There's a handful of us who are interested in this,' I think it would have been taken differently. That's where Chuck says that when you go in as a group or on behalf of a group, you represent not just an idea but a force. In the world of local politics, these different forces all interact and have a role to play.
We profile individuals on Bottom Up Shorts, and that feels right because each one of us needs to know there is a path ahead that we can follow and examples we can emulate in our own communities. Something that gets me fired up can be enough to give me the energy to go forward, but there's also deeper value and power in aligning oneself with others in our community. As we close out, share a little insight into why you feel the Local Conversation efforts are making a real difference here.
I think it's exactly what you just said, Norm. It's taking great ideas that people have in their community, maybe supplementing them with some Strong Towns ideas, and turning those ideas into a collective force. I've been an advocate for a long time, and I've been that sole advocate going to the people in power, getting a polite brush-off, and being told, 'Oh, you did a good job,' but nothing ever happens.
The power of Local Conversations is the conversation piece. It's having many people in the room with different experiences, from different parts of your community, of different ages and demographics, all coming together and saying, 'On this one thing, we're going to push together. We're going to advocate together. We're going to build this bus bench together. We're going to advocate for this zoning reform together.' Whatever it is, having that group together is the key to pushing things forward.
We see that in Asheville, which is a stage three Local Conversation. They reached out because they are building so many bus benches each month that they needed to figure out how to restructure how they build them. Once they got started, more people started coming, and they said, 'We have 10 people trying to build one bench. There are too many people and not enough benches.' What a great problem to have. It's a sign of the power of bringing people together in that Local Conversation context and then working together from there on whatever the next smallest step is in your community.
I'm sure I speak for you and the whole Strong Towns team when I say to all our existing Local Conversations: All of you in the trenches, we salute you. We're thrilled with what you're doing. We want to continue to celebrate and amplify your impact across North America and now in other parts of the world as well.
If you're going through the leadership training course, we've put together a course for leaders. If you've signed up at strongtowns.org/local and dipped a toe in, I would encourage you to check it out further. We're deepening the resources that are available. If this is new, foreign, or something that invokes a lot of fear, go and check it out at strongtowns.org/local.
You can sign up there. You don't have to immediately start a group, lead marches, and change the world. What we will do is introduce you to some of the core principles, how to get started, and some of the things you can do on your timeline with our support. That's what we're here for.
I know this is a little different for a Bottom Up Short and is threatening to become a Bottom Up Long, but I'm passionate about it and excited for it. Mary Kate, closing words to you.
Thanks for having me on.
I love it. With that, take care, folks, and take care of your places. Get a Local Conversation going because it is awesome.
This episode was produced by Strong Towns, a nonprofit movement for building financially resilient communities. If what you heard today matters to you, deepen your connection by becoming a Strong Towns member at strongtowns.org/membership.